To Sanjana

What are your views on creating a seperate country for LTTE or Tamil ellam? are you for this?

“There is no Just war or Principled war; there is only war.”
i think you should have said that from the beginning, not as an aside. since that concerns the topic of the post . you disagree not only me, but author of this post and even obama

it is easy to live in a fantasy world made of books and ignore the reality

i already dealt with why ltte has to be dealt with using violence if needs be in my first comment here and why such a “war is principled”. unless you prefer simple assertion to informed debate on this point you should address the points i raised there.
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following sentence of yours indicate that you have not understood what i am saying in my previous comment
“We should provide an alternative solution that will appeal to the majority of the Tamil community (something other than “put the guns down and stick ‘em up.”)”

you are basically equating tamils with ltte terrorists. that is racist. when you are trapped in such a racist mindset it is very difficult to get out of that and engage or even understand that there are other ways of looking at it
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now lets examine arguments in your comment

“Certainly, many in the north are oppressed by the Tigers, but we are deluding ourselves if we think the cadres who have repeatedly shown willingness to DIE (not just fight) for eelam are simply doing so because they are forced to”

did i say ltte cadres were forced to fight? you assume too much. i never said that, nor do i believe that. some may be but most are not. as i said some believe propaganda and “ltte racists are using (the cliam they are fighting for tamils ) as a propaganda tactic “. i am sure nazi soldiers believed hitler too.

anyway ltte’s claim it is not true nor is there any grounds for it regardless of whether some idiotic criminals working for it believe it and are willing to die for it or not. so any principled person should not repeat it as if he/she believes it, as you did

anyway ppl who are so morally bankrupt that they believe aiding and supporting ltte atrocities will address tamil problems , should be treated as criminals.
i for one don’t believe tamils are doing that . may be you do ?

i repeat poverty does not excuse theft. to believe otherwise is unjust and immoral.

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as for best way for fighting ltte, that is best left to ppl who know how to do that . i do not think offering “political solutions ” created by ppl not representing tamils in north and east provinces will help . but if they think that is useful propaganda by all means.
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“btw, do you consider dropping 500Kg bombs in populated areas to be principled war?”
as i said from the first objections to means of conducting war is a separate issue from whether ltte is a target of a principled war . you have not addressed that fundamental question beyond asserting you are opposed to all war . see the beginning of this comment with regard to that

beyond that to give validity to your objections you have to substantiate your claims ( “dropping 500Kg bombs in populated areas” for example ) and prove that gosl or sl military has a deliberate policy of attcking civilians. you have not done that .

as long as ltte is a target for a principled war (reason for which i gave in my first comment and which you have not addressed ) and as long as military uses legitimate means for conducting war, it is a principled war.

that ppl may die accidentally when police try to arrest violent criminals does not mean they are not doing the right thing or that they should not arrest them . if individual police officers break the law in the process by all means substantiate that and let law take its course .

you on the other hand confuse all of that together.

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“They did have democratic representatives post-Independence…. I don’t think the offer of returning to what they had (square one) and then talking about solutions will fly. They would be forgiven for thinking that if they couldn’t get a fair hearing then, why would they get it now?”

i actually answered you question already. ” will all prejudices be addressed and all grievances addressed by that means? no”
however there is no other option. that is the way democracy works.

various interest groups ( ethnic or otherwise) in a democracy do not get everything they want , they have to compromise with other interest groups . democracy is hard work if you persist you get some of what you want ( in sl for instance indian tamils were able to enfranchise millions through democracy)

on the other hand no one has the right to go and demand through violence if they do not get what you want through democracy . if some small group unjustifiably pretends to represent a particular (broader) interest group and claim to resort to violence bc of such disappointment that group should be treated as violent criminals. ltte is that. that is one reason why war against them is principled

you seem to not understand these facts and principles about democracy

“The Black Americans did not gain their rights only because of peacefull negotiations. They fought with the Union Army to gain their rights. Abraham Lincoln’s proclamation was in 1864.”

The emancipation proclamation eliminated slavery. Jim Crow laws were in effect though upto 1964. The police also looked the other way while lynching of blacks continued unabated. Jim Crow laws were eliminated by NON-violent means only. Martin Luther King Jr.’s struggle captured the hearts and minds of both blacks and whites because it was based in non-violence.

“ppl are free to have ambitionss and oppose possible competitors. obama is not getting there unoppesd either”

AGREED. POINT TAKEN.

“i am not saying there are no prejudices, but that ltte is not fighting against them. ”
They are feeding on the prejudices. Their money raising machine amongst the diaspora doesn’t run on intimidation alone. Their actions right now are probably aimed at just sustaining the LTTE organization, but they are tapping into prejudices to market themselves. And evidently they do it well ($300 million raised per year supposedly). This is why I emphasize presenting a just political solution (that will remove the prejudices), to undermine them by attracting the grass roots away from them. Certainly, many in the north are oppressed by the Tigers, but we are deluding ourselves if we think the cadres who have repeatedly shown willingness to DIE (not just fight) for eelam are simply doing so because they are forced to. There were prejudices before, there are prejudices now, and the LTTE has articulated a solution (Eelam) which many Tamils find compelling enough to die for. We should provide an alternative solution that will appeal to the majority of the Tamil community (something other than “put the guns down and stick ‘em up.”). Which is also why I agree with Sanjana that this is a DUMB war. We de-fanged their best battlefield commander Karuna (who inflicted massive losses on our forces during Jayasikurui) during the Ceasefire. The LTTE split in two during peacetime NOT during war. We can beat the LTTE by being smarter, not by throwing our soldiers into battle, and dropping bombs on the Wanni (btw, do you consider dropping 500Kg bombs in populated areas to be principled war ? I know the US and UK does it, but it is still morally wrong. Collateral damage is a sanitized way of describing civilians dying.)

“when there is are legitimate democratic representatives for tamils in north and east.”
They did have democratic representatives post-Independence. I wasn’t around then but I’m told elections then were more fair and more free than today. I don’t think the offer of returning to what they had (square one) and then talking about solutions will fly. They would be forgiven for thinking that if they couldn’t get a fair hearing then, why would they get it now?

btw, as an aside, let me just make it clear that I am against ALL war. There is no Just war or Principled war; there is only war. There has to be a better way to solve our problems. If you get a chance, read “Nonviolence: The History of a Dangerous Idea” by Mark Kurlansky. Vijitha Yapa has it. It has many historical examples of using peace against a violent opponent to achieve political goals.

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“i am for eliminating the LTTE too,”
good to know

“by offering a good political package that would pull the rug from under P and deprive him of his grass roots support.”

do you assume he has grass root support for his atrocities, and for his oppression of … grass roots?
some ppl do take propaganda at face value it seems
you expect ltte fascist regime to be overthrown by ppl kept under its boot? nice daydream! in real world we have to defeat it with violence if needs be. otherwise it can stay there for decades however much ppl don’t like it
that is one reason why this war is principled .

as for “political packages” , they may be useful as propaganda for government, but final solution will come only when we have legitimate democratic representative of tamils in north and east provinces, who can then negotiate and compromise with other interest groups that represent sri lankan democracy. nobody has the right to say what tamils want now.

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” “p and his ltte is not fighting against prejudices”: may I remind you about the Sinhala Only Act of 1956; the Policy of Standardization 1973; THE ANTI-TAMIL RIOT OF 1983 !!! ; mass eviction of Tamils from Colombo 2007; Mass arrests of Tamils in Colombo 2007; on-going abductions, torture, and killings of Tamils…”

??? i think you made a mistake
i am not saying there are no prejudices, but that ltte is not fighting against them. quite the contrary in fact.
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“… WE created them by OUR stupid, short-sighted, PREJUDICED actions.”

i repeat ltte and p are not fighting for tamils and do not have tamil support for their atrocities. only racists (from both sides) believe otherwise . ltte racists are using that as a propaganda tactic . do you believe them ? your comment seems to admit that .

as i already said here before, none of the things you mention ( grievances , discriminations , ‘83 etc, etc ) justifies, or should be allowed be used as excuses for ltte atrocities by anyone with any claim to moral principles. if you are for human right, justice and democracy you should condemn any attempt to legitimize ltte’s atrocities by repeating its propaganda about tamil grievances .

a thief steals not bc he is poor. to say so is unjust and an attack against all those ppl who are poor and never steal . similarly ppl repeating this ltte propaganda lie, are attacking north and east tamils and other minorities ( some with even greater grievances ) who have preferred democratic means to fight prejudices.

as for prejudices , grievances etc.
they should be addressed only through democratic means through negaoations with all interest groups of sl, .when there is are legitimate democratic representatives for tamils in north and east. will all prejudices be addressed and all grievances addressed by that means? no . but that is how it should start and proceed.

war is principled bc it brings us to that point

1) Kadirgamar was suggested for PM by CBK, promptly torpedoed by MR who threatened a march from Hambantota

2) “war against ltte is principled and for democracy”: I am for eliminating the LTTE too, by offering a good political package that would pull the rug from under P and deprive him of his grass roots support.

3) “p and his ltte is not fighting against prejudices”: may I remind you about the Sinhala Only Act of 1956; the Policy of Standardization 1973; THE ANTI-TAMIL RIOT OF 1983 !!! ; mass eviction of Tamils from Colombo 2007; Mass arrests of Tamils in Colombo 2007; on-going abductions, torture, and killings of Tamils…

No argument with you that P and the LTTE are a bunch of murderous !@%$#&@! but WE created them by OUR stupid, short-sighted, PREJUDICED actions.

When I said the LTTE started this war, I meant this current outbreak of it. The origins of the armed conflict as a whole are entirely debatable.

But your point is that he would have fought the war on principle – for democracy, human rights, and liberty. Perhaps so. But war has a corrosive effect on these things, even in the most progressive of societies. I’ve heard it said many times that the U.S. constitution would not survive one more 9/11. And judging by what has transpired since 2001, it’s not entirely unlikely.

If the world’s richest and most powerful democracy is so vulnerable, then I think our institutions have held up remarkably well considering what we’ve been through. The president has been elected. His cabinet comprises representatives of all major communities. Our supreme court has regular bouts of independent-mindedness. Our press, despite the best efforts of the goon squads, is vibrant.

None of this is to suggest that everything is fine. Plainly it isn’t. I detest this government almost as much as you do, for all the reasons you have expressed here, and I wholeheartedly applaud your efforts to resist its assault on our rights and liberties. In today’s environment, it is heroic.

But for all that, I simply cannot agree with your implication that there is now a moral equivalence between the Sri Lankan state and the LTTE. It is the latter who wanted this war and started it. That much is clear, despite the best efforts of their apologists and propagandists to muddy the issue. And even if, for some reason, you don’t buy that, here’s something that’s indisputable:

If you were doing what you’re doing in the Vanni, you would have been subject to a lot worse than hate mail.

“It would be laughable to even suggest it ”
actually ppl did suggest it here seriously when mr kadirgamar was alive. like all democratic tamil leaders he was killed by ltte .

that is one reason why a war against ltte is principled and for democracy

“fight against prejudice in the U.S. was won NON-violently (Prabhakaran can you hear me?)”
err… criminal p and his ltte is not fighting against prejudices ( either violently or non violently ) . to believe otherwise is to give credence to ltte’s claim to be representative of tamils, when it has actually killed tamil leaders who really fought against prejudices through democracy