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The Internment – A Collective Punishment?

The widespread indifference to the continuing misery of 280,000 interned IDPs, most of them already unlawfully detained for about four months without any charges, is a sad reflection on the moral values of our society. The reported release of a few thousand is most welcome, but what of the remaining 270,000? Attempts made to justify the internment on the grounds that some of the areas from which they were displaced may yet be land-mined is patently false, in that these internees could then be permitted to move temporarily to other areas to live with relatives or friends, or in accommodation provided by organisations that have already indicated a willingness to help. As in the case of other IDPs, the state could establish a few welfare (not detention) camps to accommodate the few who cannot find accommodation on their own. Any decision to move out should be taken by the IDPs solely on their own responsibility. Concern for the welfare of IDPs cannot possibly be a reason to detain anyone or to restrict their movements or to prevent access to them. If, on the other hand, the IDPs are being held on suspicion of being responsible for criminal activity, and if evidence is available, they should be duly arrested and charged. If, four months after the commencement of their detention, there is no evidence found to charge them, they should be freed forthwith.

Is the ethnicity of the IDPs a factor that contributes to the tacit acceptance of the detention without any charges of virtually the entire population caught up in the territory conquered from the LTTE? Are they being held as prisoners of war? When natural disasters, such as the tsunami of December 26, 2006, devastated the shores of this island and the lives of hundreds of thousands of our population, many of all ethnic groups were motivated to disregard any ethnic or religious differences and help the victims. Identifying with natural disaster-stricken victims and generously helping them is an admirable characteristic of Sri Lankans of all ethnic groups. Do ethnic differences suppress our generosity when the disaster is caused by ethnicity-related political oppression or violence? Is that the kind of people we are? Is that how we see ourselves?

When the Indian Tamils in our midst were suddenly deprived of citizenship and voting rights in 1949, it was a tragedy for the one million Indian Tamils. Most of the other ethnic groups, including a significant proportion of Sri Lankan Tamils, appeared to be indifferent to the injustice inflicted on Indian Tamils. Again, when Tamil-speaking persons were suddenly deprived of their language rights in 1956, most of those of other linguistic groups appeared to be indifferent to the pain of the Tamil-speaking population. When various acts of brutal ethnic violence or ethnic cleansing took place over the years, whether of Sinhalese at the hands of the LTTE and other Tamil armed groups, or of Tamils at the hands of Sinhalese and Muslim armed groups, or of Muslims at the hands of Sinhalese and Tamil armed groups, it appeared that those most concerned were of the same ethnic group as the victims. Is such selectivity in our concerns in keeping with our Buddhist or Hindu or Muslim or Christian or ethical values? Or are our tribal instincts superseding our religious and ethical principles?

Four months ago, close to the end of the civil war, when groundviews posed the hypothetical question “Would killing 50,000 civilians to finish off the LTTE bring peace?” most of those who responded replied, “No, this is just wrong.” But, sadly, there were a few who replied “Yes” or “Maybe”. It may be instructive to explore our responses to a similar question: Suppose the LTTE had been cornered by the armed forces of the State and retreated into your old school premises, occupied by 1,000 students, staff, and family members, who were then held hostage by the rebel group. The school premises have been sealed off by the armed forces of the State, who effectively control all entry and exit, but are unable to rescue the captives. Any attempt by the armed forces to forcibly enter the premises to capture the rebels free the captives is likely to lead to the death of at least 500 of the latter. What is to be done?

In the heat of the conflict the instinct of the armed forces may be to go in and finish off their task, irrespective of the scale of civilian casualties. Would you recommend that they do that, or would you urge negotiating the release of the hostages in exchange for some concessions to the captors? For the captors, there is no other option available, because they are effectively surrounded. Most of us would surely urge that there should be a negotiated settlement so as to avoid large scale civilian deaths. Since the students, teachers, and family members are of our own school, it is easy to identify with the victims.

Would our concern be less and our decision be different if it was not our own school, but a remote school, and the captives are mainly of ethnic, religious, linguistic, and class identities different to our own? When Madeleine Albright justified sanctions against Iraq, even after it was known that sanctions had led to the deaths of over 500,000 Iraqi children as well as very large numbers of other civilians, she was rightly condemned as a racist; so too George Bush, Tony Blair, and many others who held that the invasion of Iraq was worthwhile despite the tragedy it brought on the population. Was it worthwhile for them or the Iraqi people? Are we less racist than they? Four months ago, in the midst of the war, we could have been excused for paying inadequate attention to humanitarian issues and letting our political objectives and tribal instincts overcome our religious and ethical values. Today, four months after the end of the war, that excuse will not hold. We know that the internment is wrong as surely as we know that all the massacres and all the ethnic cleansing over the decades were wrong.

Should we not urge the immediate release of those wrongfully detained?

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futile said,

September 17, 2009 @ 4:16 am

The unforgivable acceptance of the majority of sri lankans of this horror is starting to make me think that perhaps the call for their own homeland was the most rational thing to ask for. If the rest of the country is happy to let one ethnic group languish and suffer, how else will they feel other than this is not their country? All the last 4 months has done is to prove that what the LTTE were fighting for (as horrendous and murderous as they were, as unforgivable as their tactics may have been) might have had some virtue to it. Well done sri lanka, for proving you have no tolerance, no soul, no decency, and for making it clear that there is no room for Tamils in this country under a Sinhalese dominated government.

Sinhala_Voice said,

September 17, 2009 @ 4:54 am

Can anyone in this forum give a unconditional guarantee that NONE OF THE PEOPLE in the camp have ever committed any ACTS of VIOLENCE for a Separate TAMIL State in Sri Lanka during the cause of their lives.

Do NOT say that ALL have committed acts of terror. Don’t you think that there are highly weapons trained cadres of LTTE with skills of bomb making and training to commit sucide attacks are within the boundaries of these camps.

Then is it NOT in the interest the state to ensure that they find and detain such elements so that they are not a problem to the state as well as the general law abiding Tamils.

Believe me if there is a resurgence of separatist violence those who lead it will target the Tamils first saying that they are traitors and collaborators with the Sinhala state.

So it is in the interest of ALL the communities in Sri Lanka that ALL terror elements are screened.

Then the remaining re-settled in exactly the same areas that they inhabited before the conflict.

NOBODY WANTS TO SEE CIVILIANS IN DETENTION CAMPS FOR EVER.

bottle said,

September 17, 2009 @ 9:30 am

You can’t detain a quarter of a million people for 4 months because you think there may be some criminals amongst them. there may be more drug dealers in the city of Baltimore – do you put a fence around it and let no one move until they have been “weeded out”. It is the most insane and ludicrous attempt at so-called security measures the world has ever seen. If I happened to be caught up in an area with terrorists and was kept in a camp for 4 months because I was in the wrong part of the country, because it was my bad luck to be born there, with no rights of movement, unable to see my family, living in baking hot tents, flooded, sharing a toilet with 15 other people – I would be very, very angry. Are Sri Lankans incapable of this tiny bit of empathy and unable to see how people might FEEL – i.e. other human beings???? It is the most insane thing I have ever witnessed.

If you want to make people mad and get them to pick up a gun in frustration and start another civil war, this is the PERFECT way to do it. If I was sitting in that camp right now – after 4 long months with no clear light at the end of the tunnel, I might feel like that was my only option. I am clearly not being treated like a citizen of this country with any rights.

I have yet to see what this weeding out process is all about, and no one seems very concerned to find out about it. Everyone refers to this “need to weed”. Do they even know what it entails? Is this being documented and shown transparently? Why the hell isn’t the government telling us what they are doing in there? Why aren’t they letting anyone freely talk to people there? Why are they so scared of journalists “tarnishing their image”? What have they done that is ambiguous enough to be tarnishing? Why doesn’t anyone ask these questions – but keep bleating like a zombie sheep “we need to weed”? everyone is an expert now on how to contain terrorism, without even taking the time to figure out how it is being done. I am getting suspicious and those people must be at the end of their tether.

300,000 people, men, women, children, old people. detained, like criminals. IT IS INSANITY. There is no right minded democratic state in the world that could get away with this. The people of Sri Lanka can’t see the wood from the trees, they’ve lost their moral compasses, they can’t see what a perverse nightmare of a country they are living in. It is totally sickening.

niranjan said,

September 17, 2009 @ 10:29 am

Dr. Nesiah,

We are indeed tribal, primitive and feudal in some ways. No amount of education in schools or universities have been able to erase that over the years.

An interesting article.

Canaga said,

September 17, 2009 @ 11:57 am

A very well argued article – well done Devanesan.

Wish the Sri Lankan citizens realise what harm has been done. It is not now but since 1948.

All peaceful means were devastated. The poor Tamils had to suffer.

What the Tamils faced in 1983 and now were the worst – what would happen if the other side has to face all this?

PLEASE THINK.

Andrew said,

September 17, 2009 @ 1:54 pm

http://www.srilankacampaign.org/home.htm

Disgusted said,

September 17, 2009 @ 8:10 pm

Sri Lanka is more morally defunct than even Bush’s America. At least the latter targetted its large-scale racism outside its borders and not at its own fellow-citizens.

An article that is full of humanitarian insight.

As for Sinhala_Voice, you exhibit completely the racism the writer talks about, the racism that sees people as functional objects rather than as human beings. Nesiah has already debunked the arguments you mention through his superior ethical reasoning but you just continue scrabbling into the gutter to raise up this despicable rat’s thrash all over again. SL Tamils were not born to serve as objects to guarantee your safety and security. Why don’t you guarantee theirs, for a change?

bottle said,

September 17, 2009 @ 11:59 pm

Yes, how safe are unprotected women and children in camps that don’t adhere to high protection standards – where there is no recourse to the law and the government shadily refuses to let people speak to anyone in the camps freely? How do any of us know what is really going on in all the zones of the camp? Do you worry about whether they are safe from harm or don’t you care?

Was it safer to be a Sinhalese or Tamil person in the time of the bus bombings (those bombs were not too discriminating), or a person from the Vanni in the time of shelling and now this? Is it safer to be a journalist now or then? How much of the safety of “others” are you sacrificing to escape the fear that the government is keeping you fat, scared and quiet on?

Devanesan Nesiah said,

September 18, 2009 @ 11:01 am

In response to Sinhala_Voice,

No guarantees are ever possible. In fact, it is likely that there are a few ex-LTTE activists among those yet interned. It is also likely that there are rapists, murderers, drug-pushers, paedophiles and other criminals who have escaped punishment and continue to engage in such activities in which ever city or region each of us live. Would it not be immoral, unlawful and counter-producitve to intern and isolate the entire population of our city or region till all these criminals could be combed out? If it is argued that the proportional criminals in our city or region is negligible (1%) and the proportion of LTTE activists among the internees is substantial (5%), I would disagree. But, even if that claim is true it makes no difference; the internment and isolation of large numbers is immoral, unlawful and counter-productive whether the criminals among them form 1% or 5%.

SomeOne said,

September 18, 2009 @ 5:17 pm

“…Then the remaining re-settled in exactly the same areas that they inhabited before the conflict…..”

Hey, Hey, Hey Sinhala_Voice,

What you mean by re-settle?

1. You have uprooted them from their originally inhabited area,

2. Keep them in the nursery (internment camp), until

3. You prepare the land (demining or what ever the non-sense!!!) including weeding out in the nursery and then

4. You will replant (re-settle) them and water them at their feets!!

[Edited out]

Heshan said,

September 19, 2009 @ 12:26 am

The irony is that crime and corruption were actually much lower in LTTE-controlled areas than in say, Colombo or Galle. Statistics ALONE will indicate that the LTTE ran a much more efficient civil and judicial apparatus than the (Sinhalese) apparatus in the South. This begs the question, what are the people who lived in crime-free LTTE areas guilty of?

Oshadee Nirmala Iddamalgoda said,

September 19, 2009 @ 6:18 am

Sinhala Voice is a voice of someone who has completly lost the plot….treating people like this is extremely dangerous for Sri Lanka – the people in internment camps should be treated well, international aid agencies allowed in, given treatment that corresponds to acceptable international standards, and a comprehensive plan is required to re-settle them as soon as possible.

Especially youth – men and women should be treated well, in a diplomatic, magnanimous manner that helps change any negative perceptions they may have of the Sri Lankan government, Sinhalese leadership, the state military forces and the Sinhalese people at large. This has to be done in a diligient way, not by imposing high levels of force and by entrapping people (which is exactly what the present government does).

The government’s strategy is extremely dangerous for the future of Sri Lanka. We need a different and more inclusive approach when dealing with this issue. What is at stake is human lives, not lifeless objects. Enough of playing with valuable lives……

May God bless the Northern people in internment camps

SomeOne said,

September 19, 2009 @ 2:56 pm

Dear “Oshadee Nirmala Iddamalgoda”,

First of all, GOD bless you for the kindness and empathy showed towards the people in internment, concentration, incarcerated,… camps.

I wish to go one step ahead of your statement. Read your following statement again.

“…the people in internment camps should be treated well…”

Remember, these people are wanni people. These people can treat/support other people. Even if they are completely isolated from outside world, they will survive. They have done this during 1800’s. When I say wanni people, I don’t see any difference between wanni-tamils and wanni-sinhaleese. Very good example is the people from “Walli oya-Manal aaru” region.

In my opinion, what the SL Govt. and some others like “Sinhala_voice” are trying to prove is that, hey, you guys need us, you guys can’t survive with out us, and above all, we are your masters. In simple term, these people are playing politics with wanni people.

These people have done nothing wrong. They are paying a price for the mistake some one else made.

Atheist said,

September 20, 2009 @ 2:41 am

Oshadee Nirmala Iddamalgoda:

Man/woman, please don’t make a mockery out of a tragedy. It seems like straight talking is something scoundrels have never learnt. Iddamalgoda, pray tell us, when did you last visit Vanni? Iddamalgoda, if you are so “concerned” about IDPs, why don’t you organize a Padayatra to Vanni or Upavasa /Satyagraha or much better what the Tamil Nadu people do when they go berserk over Sri-Lankan matters or over death of movie stars/politicians: self- immolation!!! Be a martyr!

Padayatra to Oprah fell through, eh? As the song goes: “You can’t always get what you want/But if you try sometime, you just might find you get what you need”.

Talking Head said,

September 20, 2009 @ 5:48 am

Hey Heshan,

I checked on LTTE. What is LAMPPOST punishment? Did you teach all that to Osama and his guys too? I guess parents under areas controlled by your gang don’t have to worry about their kids getting an education – they can all be child recruits, right? This is what I read about your mad dog gang.

Did you write to Uncle Sam of your LTTE civil and judicial apparatus [Edited out]. Has Uncle Sam approved of it?

No, man we don’t want your apparatus here. Down the street we do little petty crime: smoking a bit of weed, playing our guitar and busking about for a bit of dough. Man, your kind of people have never dropped a penny in our hats. Unlike LTTE, Taliban and the Osama gang, the USA does not see sex as a crime. You Neo-Cons are a dangerous breed, man. Our dudes here are afraid that the likes of Osama are good at computer tech – medieval minds and modern technology are a lethal combination.

Power to the people!!!

Observer said,

September 20, 2009 @ 7:43 am

Doomed(!) if you do and doomed(?) if you do not. Better to do! Make sure it’s a lasting peace. It’s good to have peaceniks to add balance to this world. But history is written through decisive hard action.

Anyway people are slowly getting released now from temporary welfare accommodation. Demining and safety clearances have speed up dramatically with acquisition of resources from overseas. No need to make a fuss anymore. Contrary to propaganda there are relatives, government agencies, NGOs in constant touch with these people and their welfare looked after to the best of abilities.

Like I have said LTTE was the real mass internment camp. Did the LTTE allow freedom of movement? Could they have come to Colombo even if the government approved someone to come? No!

We should make sure once diverse and vibrant northern regions which got ethnically cleansed of Sinhalese are reintroduced in parallel with the release of these IDPs. My hope is an ethnically diverse Northern region of Sri Lanka for the future.

P.S. If I was the president, when these UN [officials] come and ask for release, I’d go and put them in a town where there was heavy fighting, mining, unexploded shells, jumping johnnies, etc (where these people used to live) and give them a food pack a GPS a map and ask them to make it to the nearest army base without blowing off a leg. Boy I’d love to see them [bleep] their pants.

Disgusted said,

September 20, 2009 @ 5:16 pm

Observer,
It’s not “history” that’s “written through decisive hard action”. It’s barbarism that’s written that way.

So your great hope is for Sinhalese to leave the fertile South areas to go and live in the arid Northern areas? You’re prepared to be stupid just to ensure that Tamils don’t have a place in Sri Lanka? Ever heard of the expression “cutting one’s nose to spite one’s face”?

As for your pathetic presidential fantasy, what do you think UN and its leading member nations are going to do when some stupid president drunk on his own imagined power deposits their officials in a war-zone? Suck their thumbs?

Heshan said,

September 20, 2009 @ 7:09 pm

@Talking Head:

You are right. No lamp-post punishment in the South. “Dr.” Mervyn will hold Kudu Lal and family by the hand all the way to VIP lounge of KIA. [Edited out] cops chasing young boys will get transfers and promotions. Definitely no restrictions on sex there! Where they will use a lamp post for positioning purposes – well we cannot definitively answer that question; perhaps “Dr.” Gothabaya with his new degree can tell us. Of course we should not give our names when we inquire or white vans may come our way… medieval mind indeed… now that “King” Mahinda is in charge, we can turn to the monks on advice for everything from how [Edited out] [to approach] every Khadaffi, Ghadaffi, Chang, Wang, and Gandhi that promises to keep the West away. A nation of beggars – already 250,000 in the North thanks to the “King” and his “holy wars” – anytime now the “Chinthanaya” will come to the South.

doomed to repeat it said,

September 20, 2009 @ 11:03 pm

If I understand correctly, aren’t many of the “released IDPs” merely being moved to camps in other places? A (Sinhalese) police friend in Batticaloa says that two small camps that previously held refugees from the 2007 fighting in the east are now being re-filled with people from the Vanni.

Has anyone else heard these sorts of reports?

Talking Head said,

September 21, 2009 @ 4:55 am

Heshan:

Man, you sound like a real homophobic, with a lot of repressed garbage eating you! If I didn’t know any better, I would think you were condoning hate crimes. Who the hell are Mervyn, Kudu Lal and Gothabaya? Do they belong to the LTTE gang? What the hell is a white van? Why don’t you take a cab, or go in a flat bed truck looking off into the stars?

Another thing, man, why are you dissing Gandhiji? I bet this probably means that you hate our Martin Luther King, Jr too. If you want to be with the West, don’t bad mouth Gandhiji – we love him over here! As for a “nation of beggars”, don’t insult our Harlem. I can see that you know nothing about the Harlem Renaissance. I won’t be surprised if your kind doesn’t have an ear for Jazz and a heart for good writing. As far as the mind goes…well…we’ll forget all about that.

We, in the West, do not respect homophobic, Gandhiji hating people like you. We don’t like terrorists of any kind!

Man, now keep it real: respect the land of your ancestors.

Three cheers to all island people!!!

bottle said,

September 21, 2009 @ 8:27 pm

Tarnish your own name. Do you know what a white american said to me the other day? “the Sinhalese are the Nazis of the 21st Century”. This is what we are doing to ourselves – you are going to wake up in 5 years and find that this is what the country will be famous for. Nobody beyond the race-politics addled four-walls of Sri Lanka is going to buy the pathetic garbage propaganda that this government seems to be wooing the country with. This is what an globally little-known race will be famous for. The Hutus of South Asia. Well done Rajapaksas, for dragging down the reputation of the Sinhalese culture with this unforgivable blight on the history of this country. Well done everyone else for buying the [Edited out] argument that trampling all over the rights of another ethnicity is somehow necessary for our “safety”. The whole world is starting to look down on us with disgust.

[Editors note: Please refrain from using profanity in your comments. For further information, please refer site guidelines. Thank you.]

Heshan said,

September 21, 2009 @ 9:35 pm

What I find interesting that the “homeland of pure Theravada-Buddhism” is best friends with China, which has destroyed thousands of temples in Tibet and chased the Dalai Lama away. Or could it be that the so-called patriots do not know about Tibet to begin with. Anyway, hopefully there will be a lot more Chinese restaurants in SL next time I’m there, now that Mahinda has sold half the country to China.

Off the Cuff said,

September 22, 2009 @ 12:39 am

The writer describes the Sri Lankan Psyche partially by the quoted Paragraph below. I say partially as the assumption that such magnanimity is limited to natural disasters is not factually correct.

The first people that came forward to provide essentials to the Tamil IDP’s were from the South (people here includes Muslims, Tamils, Sinhalese and other ethnic groups). They contributed lavishly through Churches, Temples, Kovils, Media institutions etc. A major portion of these contributions were from the Sinhalese, naturally so, as 70+% of the SL population is Sinhalese.

During the Mob Riots in 1983 a large number of Sinhalese took it upon themselves to protect their Tamil friends from a certain death. They hid and fed them for weeks and when the time was opportune, transported them to safety. Even purchasing extra food to feed those kept hidden, was dangerous and a give away. Hence food was not purchased from one place but from several places to avoid detection. A large number of Tamils owe their lives to these brave Sinhalese who risked their own lives, the lives of their wives and children, their businesses, Houses and properties to save their Tamil friends. They acted selflessly with complete disregard for their own safety or their property. These are not actions of a people with ‘Ethnic Bias’.

I have seen only TWO postings from Tamils, on the Internet, acknowledging this fact. One was from Australia and the other from Canada. Probably acknowledging such a thing would go against the pro LTTE propaganda machine working overtime to demonize the Sinhala race.

Quote
“When natural disasters, such as the tsunami of December 26, 2006, devastated the shores of this island and the lives of hundreds of thousands of our population, many of all ethnic groups were motivated to disregard any ethnic or religious differences and help the victims. Identifying with natural disaster-stricken victims and generously helping them is an admirable characteristic of Sri Lankans of all ethnic groups.”
Unquote

There are many here who are sitting in judgment on the IDP issue. Majority of them don’t have first hand knowledge of the camps. Many act as if this is the first time a govt had acted in this way to overcome a complex situation involving the safety of the population at large. The USA uprooted over 100,000 US citizens of Japanese origin by Executive order of the President and interned them for several years till the end of WW2. Over 50,000 of them were children. The camps were regimented and were located in a dessert with 24 hour armed guard. Canada, Australia and France have acted in the same way.

These Govts acted in this way to prevent an insignificant threat when compared to the threat faced by SL. No Govt had to contend with 27 years of suicide terrorism from a sophisticated and fanatical terror outfit like the LTTE, as the SL govt did.

I will not attempt to deal with the conditions at IDP camps as I do not have first hand information but I will be quoting below a first hand report emanating from a Tamil Eelamist, a former Terrorist who fought the SLA.

This is what a senior leader of EROS Mr. Nesan Shankar Raji, has to say about the IDP camps (he is not an arm chair critic)

Extract
It may be that our people have to be temporarily housed in IDP camps until the areas where they are from are de-mined & cleared of weapons …. used by the LTTE. Civilians in these camps also need to be screened & their identities verified & cross-checked for national security purposes. This is the duty of any responsible Government in power as there are many ex-LTTE Intel agents … including former cadres who need to be rehabilitated before being re-introduced back in to ordinary civilian life. These camps constructed by the SL Govt are a far cry from Concentration Camps as they are being labeled by … LTTE supporters in the West …

I personally visited these camps in April between 9th and 19th & our members on ground in Vavuniya visit the camps regularly to gather feedback from civilians. Yes, there have been issues with food not being delivered on time etc, but our people are not starving or being mistreated. They are receiving 3 meals per day & are being housed in adequate & safe conditions with full medical facilities being provided. There are 52 NGO’s including the ICRC & the UN working on ground….

Nesan Shankar Raji
Senior Leader & spokesperson
Eelam Revolutionary Organisation (EROS)
Eelavar Democratic Front (EDF)

The fact that trained LTTE cadres are hiding amongst IDP’s cannot be challenged as nearly 10,000 have been identified (some fingered by the IDP’s themselves). Before he was caught KP bragged about the existence of several thousand cadres who could restart the war again. So any solution must take into account these currently sleeping LTTE cadres as SL cannot afford another round of carnage amongst a 20,000,000 civilian population.

That there are tons of munitions and explosives carefully buried in the ground for later use cannot be challenged as even Artillery guns, Submarines, suicide boats, suicide kits and explosives have been unearthed and are still being recovered

To win this war the civilians suffered immense hardship. While food prices were sky rocketing they took it without a murmur. That was because they were war weary, tired of suicide attacks on public transport, shopping malls, village markets and in short any public place. They were weary of losing loved ones (mothers, fathers, children and those still in the womb). They wanted terrorism to be completely eradicated. The SL Armed Forces sacrificed a lot of lives and limbs. Many have been permanently disabled. Many families have lost their sole breadwinners and have become destitute

Against such a background one has to consider the anger that would be generated if bombs start to go off again due to premature release of IDP’s along with the sleeping terrorists. The public will see it as a weakness and negligence of the Govt in giving into foreign pressure and knowingly enlarging cornered terrorists hiding amongst Tamil civilians. The Govt would be directly faulted.

If the public takes to the streets there is the very real danger of a mutiny by members of the forces who would also feel disillusioned and letdown. They would be sympathetic towards a civil uprising

This could be a precursor to a full blown Civil War the likes of which have never been seen in SL

Let’s look at the hypothetical question that is posed. A similar situation actually occurred in Russia and about half the children died there.

We are talking about the LTTE. They have a history of not honoring any agreement they have made. All agreements were used by them to strengthen their position and were broken at will, at a time opportune to them. Remember that the LTTE shot and murdered execution style, 600 policemen who surrendered on the orders of the then SL President Premadasa, during ‘Peace Talks’ at the Hilton Colombo, on the strength of an LTTE undertaking of safe passage.

Going back to the IDP’s, these poor people were used by the LTTE during the war as a Human Shield. The LTTE’s concern was never the safety of Tamil civilians. They moved in with heavy munitions into both safe zones declared by the Govt for civilian safety, thus compromising the Safe Zones.

They actively prevented these same civilians from moving into Govt controlled territory to escape the war zone, during two govt declared 48 hour cease fire periods. Anna Marie Loos of Medicne Sans Frontiers says legs were cut off and people shot in the back to stop them from moving to Govt areas. Today they are being used by the LTTE to protect their hiding cadres.

If you were the Commander of the SLA and you were negotiating with a known fickle group like the LTTE, what could you offer them, in return for the release of the hostages? What you offer has to ensure the safety of the 20,000,000 civil population living in SL, not only the 1000 hostages.

The present IDP’s are the very people who were the Human Shield of the LTTE. What is strange is the ‘Pin Drop Silence’ that was maintained by the majority of currently aggressive writers when ‘Every Right’ of these people, went under the LTTE jackboot.

Humanitarian concerns that were palpably absent when the LTTE was herding the people like cattle, magically appears when they become IDP’s, why? Does it not cast a shadow of doubt about it’s authenticity? Is there a hidden motive for this show of concern?

Internment is wrong but a govt has a responsibility to all her citizens, when faced with a choice between two evils any govt would take the lesser evil.

What could and should be done is to expedite the screening process, while improving the facilities that ameliorate the unavoidable difficulties that are faced by the IDP’s

Devanesan Nesiah said,

September 23, 2009 @ 2:03 pm

In response to Off the Cuff:

There are many points on which I agree with Off the Cuff and a few on which I disagree. Whether it is a natural disaster or a political conflict makes a difference in some cases but not in all. The magnanimity exhibited in the cases cited by Off the Cuff is admirable and characteristic of Sri Lankans. I made no charge of ethnic bias against any particular ethnic community. We are all capable of exhibiting or overcoming ethnic bias depending on the circumstances.

The internment of the Japanese by the USA is a perfect example of racism. Unfortunately, in the two cases then in the USA, a split US Supreme Court bench endorsed the internment, exhibiting its own racist bias, which in turn was exposed in the sharply word dissenting judgement of one of those on the bench. Eventually, forty years later, the US government accepted that the internment was morally wrong, apologised and paid compensation to the Japanese.

Just as the internment by the American of the Japanese was wrong, the continuing internment of 280,000 Tamils is also wrong. All the excuses given are patently false. This position is endorsed by former CJ Sarath Silva in his article in the Sunday Leader, on the 14th of June 2009, which includes the following extracts;

‘Contrary to popular perception that IDP’s are destitute without anywhere to go till they are resettled in their villages, most of them have alternate options…when I spoke to a random sample of 37 families in the Vauniya camps, all but one said that if the camp doors are open they will leave immediately to better places…These camps are illegal according to the Sri Lankan law and are not in line with the UN guiding principle on internal displacement… The Kalimoddai and Sirukandal camps in Mannar that have virtually been detention centres for Tamil civilians now for over fifteen months and are good examples of how the Government wants to treat the displaced Tamil civilians. In contrast, there are no reports of entire villages, let alone whole districts being locked up behind barb wire fences, even during the height of the JVP counter-insurgency. This is despite the fact that almost all the cadres were operating from within the population and with the latter’s support’.

It is possible and even likely that there are ex-LTTE supporters among the IDP’s, just as it is possible, and even likely that there were LTTE activists in Colombo during the 1983 pogrom. That issue was then raised to facilitate the pogrom and is now being raised to justify the interment. The fact is that the interment is alienating not only the 280,000 IDP’s but the entire Tamil population . The political consequences resulting from the alienation of the Tamils in the 1983 pogrom were massive and are yet felt. The social, economic and political consequences of the alienation of the entire Tamil population on account of the internment may have a crippling effect on this country for decades to come.

Off the Cuff said,

September 24, 2009 @ 3:28 am

Dear Dr. Devanesan Nesiah, Thank you for your response

We both agree on one point. Let alone such a large number, the internment of any human being without just cause is wrong. I made this very clear in my earlier post.

The portrayal of the action of the Govt as an act of racism without an impartial look at the circumstances is also wrong. This will only serve to inflame racist sentiment.

During the JVP uprising culminating in an armed civil war in the Sinhala South, a large number of Sinhala youth both male and female were similarly interned in camps. Of the internees many were innocent but interned on suspicion. The innocents were kept interned until the hard core Sinhala terrorists were identified. No Tamils were affected in this case. The JVP targeted the administration, the LTTE targeted the civilian population

A Govt faced with terrorism takes action that it would not do during peace time. Any govt would put a higher priority on the safety of the general population which in this case is 20,000,000. Many Democratic Govts have legal provisions that invoke extra ordinary powers aimed at protecting the general populace. Those at the receiving end of those powers will have cause to complain as normal rights that they enjoy would be trampled on. The Western world is no different in this respect. Can it be denied that UK, USA, Canada etc have such laws in their books?

In hind sight, we can label the action of the US Govt during WW2 interning US citizens of Japanese origin as racism. But did the US Govt have a justifiable fear? Fear that Japanese US citizen’s living in the USA might spy for the Japanese Govt either by choice or by duress (threats against family members living in Japan). They were at war with the Japanese.

It’s a perfectly logical assumption as the possibility was very real. The US Govt decided to remove freedom of movement and contact with the outside world from the people who posed the risk. Cruel it is, when taken in isolation but thought necessary at that time to protect the USA at large.
As you point out it took 40 years for the US Govt to acknowledge it was ‘Morally’ wrong. That was long after the perceived threat had evaporated. Again even the US Supreme Court endorsed the Internment though it was a split bench. (one of the posters asked whether any democracy will intern her own. This was an answer to him mainly)

The internment of IDP’s is not aimed at the Tamil race but at the sleeping cadres of the LTTE and the purpose is the protection of a 20,000,000 population from terror attacks. It is not a “collective punishment” as you suggest.

It is not possible to dismiss the existence of the sleeping cadres as many have been caught from within the camps (including some leaders) some of whom, have been fingered by the IDP’s themselves. KP the new leader (before his capture) confirmed the existence of thousands of cadres capable of re-launching guerrilla attacks. So how can the existence of sleepers be labeled as ‘Patently False’?

When writing about a sensitive subject that has a direct bearing on communal harmony, figures should not be thrown about without verification. If verification proves difficult erring on the conservative side would be more prudent than quoting what probably would be an inflated figure. Just look around the comments on the web, even on this thread, the IDP’s have increased to 300,000 if one were to believe the oft repeated numbers.

In actuality there are 262,599 IDPs, (249,872 in camps and 12,727 in Schools, Churches, Hostels and similar places). These are figures as at 15 Sept 09. You are looked upon by the Tamil community and also by many Sinhalese with respect. Numbers that you quote have a stamp of respectability and would be repeated by them, hence the need to be careful.

28,000 Muslims evicted by the LTTE from the North in October 1990 are still languishing in IDP camps for 17 years. Their movements are not restricted though, but they are homeless and the LTTE robbed them of ALL their wealth. Have the wealthy Tamil Diaspora extended its largesse to at least try to atone for the inhuman act of the LTTE? Are they less Human?

The words “Tamil Speaking” is used by Eelamists to include the Muslims ONLY as a ploy to increase the numbers not out of any concern for the Muslims who may now be outnumbering the SL Tamils

Quoted from your article
Do ethnic differences suppress our generosity when the disaster is caused by ethnicity-related political oppression or violence? Is that the kind of people we are? Is that how we see ourselves?
Unquote

This is what I wrote earlier and it is a ‘Direct’ answer to your question as it refers to the July 1983 Mob violence towards Tamils (the words ‘ethnic bias’ were included to answer another poster’s comment).

It shows that Ethnic differences NEVER stopped decent Sinhalese from helping Tamils even at the risk of their lives or that of their families. There were thousands of such Sinhalese who were selfless in protecting their Tamil friends.

Can ANYONE honestly deny this?

During the Mob Riots in 1983 a large number of Sinhalese took it upon themselves to protect their Tamil friends from a certain death. They hid and fed them for weeks and when the time was opportune, transported them to safety. Even purchasing extra food to feed those kept hidden, was dangerous and a give away. Hence food was not purchased from one place but from several places to avoid detection. A large number of Tamils owe their lives to these brave Sinhalese who risked their own lives, the lives of their wives and children, their businesses, Houses and properties to save their Tamil friends. They acted selflessly with complete disregard for their own safety or their property. These are not actions of a people with ‘Ethnic Bias’.

What can be more generous than putting your own life, those of your family and your wealth on the line to save another Human Being (Tamils in this case)?

The present IDPs were the ‘Human Shield’ of the LTTE. When they were being herded around at gun point and living under trees in the worst possible unsanitary conditions deprived of medical aid there was a “Pin drop Silence” for months on end from the Tamil Diaspora.

I doubt that the IDP issue is alienating the “entire” Tamil population as I believe that the majority of Tamils living in Sri Lanka see the underlying intent of the agitators

The SL Forces sacrificed 26,000 lives and the SL public sacrificed countless lives and suffered untold hardship to eradicate terrorism. The public are not fools and know that sleeping terrorists are waiting to get out and launch terror attacks on them. What would you seriously think the backlash could be if IDPs are prematurely released and bombs start to go off again (munitions are buried all over)? No chance of a civil uprising after so much sacrifice if the Govt is perceived to be negligent? No chance of a Mutiny? No chance of a full blown civil war?

The view of the former CJ Sarath Silva, a Sinhalese, stating that most IDPs do have alternate places to go is correct. They do have alternate places to go to. So does the sleeping cadres.

His views more than anything go to show the independence of the SL Judiciary. Remember that he ordered the removal of the military road blocks and the govt had to comply?

Since you mentioned the CJ and since most Tamils talk about Tamil marginalization in Sri Lanka, I would like to point out a fact ignored or forgotten by many. You may be aware that the CJ cannot be given orders even by the President of SL. The Constitution thus guarantees the independence of the Judiciary.

Tamils have been appointed to this exalted position; the most notable is Justice Siva Pasupathi, the legal adviser of the LTTE, currently residing in Australia. I wonder how it can be possible in a country ‘Marginalizing’ the minority Tamil community.

Off the Cuff said,

September 24, 2009 @ 8:13 am

Correction

Subsequent to my previous post, I came to understand that Shiva Pasupati was not the CJ but the Attorney General of Sri Lanka. Subject to this correction, what was stated in my previous post is still valid

The CJ was Desamanya Suppiah Sarvananda, a Tamil.
Desamanya is a title conferred by the SL State and means the “Pride of the Nation”

It should be noted that the AG is the person who decides on prosecuting any person before the SL courts. He is also the Principal lawyer on behalf of the Govt before the Supreme Court.

The AG too, is beyond the reach of any Executive Order from the President of SL and hence independent, in so far as his legal decisions are concerned.

The error is regretted

Justine
(Off the Cuff)

Devanesan Nesiah said,

September 25, 2009 @ 2:12 pm

I agree with Off the Cuff that it is not helpful to write off local political leaders as racists (or as terrorists); but we may need to identify particular policies or actions (eg. Internment or ethnic cleansing or assassinations) as racist or as terrorist. We note that virtually the entire population of Killinochchi and Mulaitivu districts were captured and most of them are yet kept in custody in various camps. They were all under the heel of the LTTE and it is likely that many among them were used by the LTTE. Does that justify keeping the opoulation of two districts in custody for several months? As ex-CJ Sarath Silva has pointed out,

‘There are no reports of entire villages, let alone whole districts, being locked up behind barb wire fences, even during the height of the JVP counter-insurgency. This is despite the fact that almost all the cadres were operating within the population and with the latter’s support’.

Racism is promoted by glossing over it, not by exposing it.

What I have said are patently false are claims that IDPs are being kept in custody because their homes are in locations that need to be de-mined and that they have no where else to go. There are other reasons for keeping them in custody and isolated from contact with the outside world.

I agree that there is a need to be conservative in citing statistics. I have been citing 280,000 as the number of IDPs because it was widely accepted. I will the accept the correction of Off the Cuff, and will hereafter use the figure 262,000. However, the basic arguments remain unchanged.

The admirable and spontaneous actions of very many Sinhalese in protecting and helping Tamil victims of the 1983 pogrom is widely appreciated. What is disturbing is that many Sinhalese seem to be less concerned about the oppression of IDPs- perhaps an indication of a significant widening of the ethnic divide.

The brutality and racism behind the eviction by the LTTE of Muslims from the Northern Province and the racism of those Tamils who justiifed that eviction are inexcusable. Other Tamils have publicly acknowledged this. This issue is the subject of a Citizens Commission that is now sitting. The earlier disappearance of around thirty Muslims from Jaffna was addressed by a Human Rights Commission Committee of inquiry that I chaired. We clearly pinned the blame on the LTTE. That report was published by the Human Rights Commission.

How far the IDP issue is alienating the Sri Lankan Tamil population and the likely impact of it on the future of our country are subject to political judgement. I will not attempt to prove that I’m in closer touch with more Tamil community leaders from all over this island than Off the Cuff. However, the local government elections in Vavuniya are very instructive. Vavuniya was won by TNA. In Jaffna, the turn out of Tamils was abysmally low and the displaced Muslims played a critical part in determining the outcome. The UPFA won with the backing of the Muslims who, naturally, remain alienated from the Tamil parties, even as the Tamils remain alienated from the State.

The boasts of KP and the ‘fingering’ from within the camps need to be treated with caution. In the HRC Committee of Inquiry that I chaired, we discovered cases of false accusations resulting in ‘disappearances’. In one case, two boys had a disagreement over a small amount of money and the aggrieved boy took his revenge by reporting to the military that the other was connected to the LTTE. The other boy was taken away and never seen again.

Racism in the UK, US, and Canada has an incomparably longer history and is very much deeper than in Sri Lanka. President Roosevelt, who ordered the Internment, had a good reputation as a liberal and progressive politician, but the Internment was racist, as was the decision of the Supreme Court that endorsed it. In 1944, the dissenting judgement by Justice Jackson says it all. Below is an extract,

‘Korematsu was born on our soil, of parents born in Japan. (Had) Korematsu been one of four- the other being, say, a German alien enemy, or Italian alien enemy and a citizen of American born ancestors convicted of treason but out on parole- only Korematsu’s presence would have violated the order. The difference between their innocence and his crime would result not from anything he did, said or thought different than they, but only in that he was born of different racial stock’.

Off the Cuff does not seem to think that the Internment order or that the majority judgement was racist. Justice Jackson thought otherwise. So do I.

Off the Cuff said,

October 5, 2009 @ 1:52 am

Dear Dr. Devanesan Nesiah

A Govt and Political leaders are entirely two different things. I do not worry about the political leaders but worry about the Govt.

A Govt is charged with the well being of ALL its citizens not just a section of them. Any Govt anywhere faced with just two alternatives where both alternatives are evil will have to choose the lesser of the two evils as declining both would not be an option.

It’s in this context that I stated that “The portrayal of the action of the Govt as an act of racism without an impartial look at the circumstances is also wrong. This will only serve to inflame racist sentiment.”

No one can deny the existence of hardcore terrorists within the civilian population of the IDPs. There are 249,872 IDP’s in the camps (UN figures as at 15 Sept 2009). Assuming an average of 4 members per family this will resolve to 62,468 IDP families. The LTTE had a blood tax that required one member from each family to join its fighting cadres. This means that there are AT LEAST 62,468 LTTE fighters within the camps. Not all of them joined the LTTE willingly but it is not unreasonable to expect that at least 25% or 15,617 of them to have been willing fighters indoctrinated with a terrorist ideology. This is the minimum number of hardcore cadres hiding among the civilians. About 10,000 of them have been caught. What about the rest?

Would any responsible Govt let loose such rabid murderers cornered at such huge costs of life, limb, property and money amongst a 20,000,000 population? Could you name just one?

On the one hand, the liberty of 187,404 souls is TEMPORARILY restricted for no fault of theirs and on the other hand the release of 249,872 WITHOUT adequate screening entails the automatic enlargement of 62,648 fighting cadres of the LTTE amongst a 20,000,000 civilian populace. Can you imagine the carnage that can recommence?

This is the Hobson’s choice the govt is faced with and the obvious choice is the lesser evil of temporary restriction of freedom of movement until the Terrorists are identified. This is not a racist decision as its based on the safety of the 20,000,000 population consisting of Tamils, Muslims, Sinhalese, Kaffirs, Eurasians, Malays, and whatever but labeling it as such is definitely racist and is intended to inflame racist feelings.

It’s true that the population of two districts is involved but it is also true that these two districts were under TOTAL LTTE control for 27 years. Can you name a single district that was completely controlled by the JVP in this way? For how long could they even hold a single village in complete domination? This is why direct analogies with the JVP cannot be drawn and why such analogies fail.

Twenty seven years is a Third of a life time and the LTTE indoctrinated EVERY child with its Terror ideology. Even a newborn during that period would not know anything else other than what they were indoctrinated with. And that Doctrine was to hate and kill Sinhalese and Muslims. Hence every person under the age of 27 would be completely indoctrinated by this Terror ideology. This does not mean that 13 year old kids escaped complete indoctrination. Taking them also into consideration EVERYONE 40 and below would not know right from wrong as we know it. Quite a chilling prospect when you really think about it.

Yes you said ….Quote What I have said are patently false are claims that IDPs are being kept in custody because their homes are in locations that need to be de-mined and that they have no where else to go. Unquote

The main concern is not what you state above. The main concern is the safety of the SL populace irrespective of race religion or creed. The mines are secondary, but even then your use of the words “patently false” is a gross exaggeration.

Mine clearing is a tough, extremely dangerous and time consuming business. The very large number of mines cleared so far stands testimony to what is being done. The mine clearing was initially done manually with the help of foreigners. Today the latest machines and specially trained dogs are used in mine clearing, in order to speed the process

I have no doubt that you are more in tune with the Tamil leadership than me and it is also possible that such leaders will be alienated due to the IDP issue but its still a small price to pay rather than going back to the days of carnage.

However I believe, that given time and after observing what the Govt does, fair minded Tamil leaders will reconcile. Remember that in the East this same Govt resettled 180,610 individuals who returned to Batticaloa and Trincomalee districts as evidenced in UN reports

There are many who say that the screening process is to slow but your example of the Two boys brings to the forefront the need for meticulous investigation and that is time consuming. Such incidents of personal vendetta did occur during the JVP insurgency too and cannot be completely ruled out. That is why care is needed.

What made you think that I don’t see internment as racist and evil? I do believe internment IF done SOLELY due to a person’s race is UNQUESTIONABLY racist.

Can you point out any such thing in the Sri Lankan case? The IDPs are not kept interned because they are Tamil but because thousands of HARDCORE TERRORISTS are hiding amongst the IDPs

This is an extract from Dr P. Jeganathan’s blog.
I agree with Dr Jeganathan in that, even in the case of the Hardcore Terrorists the process involved should be transparent even if Court proceedings end up in Capital Punishment (though SL does not carry out the sentence)

The IDP camps, where displaced are being sheltered, are not ‘concentration camps.’ There are, however, serious questions about the constitutional right of free movement being restricted, until an ‘identification and registration’ process is completed, and I expect the Supreme Court to be moved on this matter soon. The Court has intervened several times earlier in relation to GoSL counter-terror policies and process, finding some un-constitutional and others not. The Court may well allow the ‘registration’ process to take place, if the registration process can be defined as time bound, as it surely can. …………..the matter is currectly not accedemic, as such, since there is a clear and present danger that a small portion of the refugees might well be hard core LTTE cadres. Since there are larger number of people invovled, even a small portion may be a very serious matter. As I understand it, if a person does admit to being such a cadre, but asserts that s/he no longer wishes to follow the LTTE, that person will be sent to a rehabilitation camp. There is one up and running in Ambepussa and there do not seem to be any coercive elements involved. If however, a person is a hard core LTTE cadre, and they remain under-cover, and if they are detected by trained, Tamil intelligence officials, they will be subject to arrest and counter-terror interrogations. It is most important to worry about the human rights of those citizens, even though very small in number, and try to ensure that they are subject to a transperent legal process, but it really is a grotesque misunderstanding to call the sum of these camps ‘concentration camps,’ in comparison to Nazi camps, which were about mass labour and mass extermination.

Devanesan Nesiah said,

October 6, 2009 @ 10:03 am

Dear Off the Cuff,

In respect of the charge of racism, the distinction that I find useful is not between individuals and governments, but between particular racist acts or policies (such as the invasion of Iraq or the internment of the Vanni Tamil population) as an intrinsic racist character (such as reflected in apartheid or Nazism or Zionism or some manifestations of religious fundamentalism). In the case of ther former, there may be opportunistic considerations contributing to those acts or policies, but in the case of the latter, racist considerations override all else.

The Vanni IDP population undoubtedly included hardcore ex-LTTE activists. Many of these are now actively engaged with the state and nearly all the other would have escaped or secured their release in one way or another. We may assume that those remaining in internment are those that neither the ex-LTTE leaders now aligned with the state nor the pro-LTTE Diaspora were motivated to set free, i.e. their LTTE activism has been insignificant.

This is not to say that ‘fingering’ of some internees by other internees will not continue as long as interment continues. When people are deprived of some basic human right and kept confined in over-crowded, under-equipped camps for an an extended period, conflicts tend to develop between them as well as between them and those in authority over them. The former will lead to ‘fingering’; the latter to incidents such as the recent violence and shooting of IDPs in Menik Farm. All this will not lead to peace building through the elimination of LTTE activists but rather, the inexorable build up of bitterness and a sense alienation among not only the internees but also the Sri Lankan Tamil population, most of whom have friends and relatives among the internees.

When South Africa overthrew Apartheid, the whole country had been under that ideology and administration for many generations, and almost the entire White population had been indoctrinated into and benefited from Apartheid from birth. Nearly all of them were directly or indirectly party to the most brutal oppression of non-Whites. Yet, even the most ardent supporters and practitioners of Apartheid were neither interned nor banished overseas. Rather, led by enlightened leaders such as Mandela it was sought to create an inclusive, non-racist environment in which even those Whites deeply committed to Apartheid could, while living in the new South Africa, have an opportunity to participate in the reconstruction of the new nation on a new foundation. It will be difficult but it seems to be working. Contrary to the fears of many, there has been no widespread civil war.

In contrast, Israel had adopted a policy based on racism, distrust of Palestinians and collective punishment- a sure recipe for disaster, as has been proved year after year for over six decades. Is it such a road that we want Sri Lanka to take?

Regarding de-mining, the IDPs will not wish to get back to their homes unless and until that area is free of mines, but to claim that IDPs are being forcibly detained on account of mine clearing is patently false. It is not even a contributory reason.

We should indeed be moderate in our terminology and comparisons, neither exaggerating not glossing over. I have never compared our interment camps to Nazi concentration camps- that would be false and misleading . Nor have I referred to these camps as welfare centres- that too would be false and misleading.

Regarding the racism and evil inherent in internment, Off the Cuff accepts it now, but she has earlier sought to gloss over it in respect of the war-time internment of US citizens of Japanese origin. I quote from Off the Cuff,

‘In hind sight, we can label the action of the US Govt during WW2 interning US citizens of Japanese origin as racism. But did the US Govt have a justifiable fear? Fear that Japanese US citizen’s living in the USA might spy for the Japanese Govt either by choice or by duress (threats against family members living in Japan). They were at war with the Japanese.

It’s a perfectly logical assumption as the possibility was very real. The US Govt decided to remove freedom of movement and contact with the outside world from the people who posed the risk. Cruel it is, when taken in isolation but thought necessary at that time to protect the USA at large’.

No one suggests that there was no such fears in the USA, but was internment justified? If so, why were US citizens of German or Italian origin not interned? The analysis and conclusion of Justice Jackson unerringly points to the answer- Racism. Do we need to understate the racism in that internment for fear of uncomfortable comparisons with our own?

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 6, 2009 @ 4:56 pm

Dear Off the Cuff >>

There is nothing “off the cuff” about the arguments you make. They are very cogent and well articulated. This is precisely what’s needed. Dispassionate analysis of facts, systematic engagement with others and most importantly, shedding light on the complexities of this situation and preventing those complexities being bulldozed over by reductionist thinking. Thank you.

I was especially taken up by why comparisons with the JVP situation are eventually bound to fail, especially due to the long and continuous exposure these people have had to terrorist ideologies on one side and army offensives on the other side and how inextricably their own lives are linked to the LTTE after such spans of time. This is something that Michael Roberts also attempted to highlight a while back, to which he was severely criticized as being insensitive to the suffering of these people, racist and subject to a host of other such derogatory and dismissive remarks, when instead, he was raising a plain as day fact.

That these people have undergone inhuman treatment, that their entire existence was geared to achieve the dreams of a few racist ideologists and that they themselves had no real future as human beings, that they were shelled and bombed and are now incarcerated, no one is denying. Now, more than ever, they deserve to have a chance at a real future. Now more than ever, it’s imperative that we leave no chance for things to revert back to the previous status quo.

But why some choose to ignore the complexities of this situation and acknowledge that it’s not as simple as racism, I have a harder time understanding. Perhaps because they themselves view everything through a racial lense and cannot see that, sometimes, some things have little or nothing to do with race.

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 6, 2009 @ 8:15 pm

Dear Devanesan Nesiah >>

I’ve read your article as well as responses with interest and there are certain points I agree with but many I disagree with.

You said: It is also likely that there are rapists, murderers, drug-pushers, paedophiles and other criminal………. ………….Would it not be immoral, unlawful and counter-producitve to intern and isolate the entire population of our city or region till all these criminals could be combed out?

I believe this comparison is mostly invalid and I have explained why in this post: http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/23/a-continuation-of-war-by-other-means/#comment-9503
The unusualness and complexity of this situation is far greater and cannot be equated with such day-to-day misfortunes/atrocities present in any country.

The social, economic and political consequences of the alienation of the entire Tamil population on account of the internment may have a crippling effect on this country for decades to come.

I agree, especially depending on whether it’s perceived to be “collective punishment” as some interpret it or based on real security concerns. I believe the govt. is mishandling the public relations aspect of this and this is further exacerbated by those already embittered by the perception that the motivation is racism.

Keep in mind also however, that further alienation of the Tamil population is not the only thing that will have a crippling effect on this country. Suicide bombers have been having a crippling effect for decades. Members of the Tamil community must also step up and take responsibility for the other occupants of this country, not just for the Tamil race. They should not alienate themselves willingly through failure to understand the present day situation. Please do not misunderstand the sentiment. It is apparent that in a situation like this, everyone is a victim and many Tamil people, more so. But it’s imperative to balance the welfare of a segment of the Tamil populace against the risk posed to the population at large. This is a humanitarian crisis, not just a Tamil crisis and should be interpreted as such.

Community leaders such as yourself doubtless play a huge role in forming Tamil perception. Therefore, as “Off the cuff” mentioned, the facts and figures you cite should be accurate and arguments you make should be based on logical consideration of evidence. Giving into emotional rhetoric such as “collective punishment” with no evidence other than embitterment at the pathetic situation of the IDPs to support such claims is counter-productive.

All the excuses given are patently false

I believe that you yourself retracted this claim later and said that only the de-mining excuse is patently false. I applaud you for your honesty. However, this is an example of the kind of hurried statement that is likely to increase this alienation, not necessarily because the govt.’s reasons are false.

Regarding de-mining, the IDPs will not wish to get back to their homes unless and until that area is free of mines, but to claim that IDPs are being forcibly detained on account of mine clearing is patently false. It is not even a contributory reason.

I agree with you that de-mining is certainly no excuse for keeping people interned. The logic, when considering mines only, is unassailable. However, de-mining is not the only issue. There are also weapons caches buried all over the place and they are being unearthed regularly as reported in the news. Coupled with the fact that there maybe significant numbers of cadres still remaining hidden among the IDPs, is the govt. not justified in the fear that they will unearth and proceed to use these weapons? Is it not wise to make sure that these weapons are removed first? This too is part of the de-mining and clearing process that is taking place.

The Vanni IDP population undoubtedly included hardcore ex-LTTE activists. Many of these are now actively engaged with the state and nearly all the other would have escaped or secured their release in one way or another. We may assume that those remaining in internment are those that neither the ex-LTTE leaders now aligned with the state nor the pro-LTTE Diaspora were motivated to set free, i.e. their LTTE activism has been insignificant

It’s not clear to me why you consider this assumption is justified. “Off-the-cuff” has given some reasonably convincing figures as to how she arrived at the estimated number of cadres mingling with the civilian population. However, your claim is directly at loggerheads with her claim since you say that there are no longer significant numbers of cadres hidden amongst the population. Can you explain why you think significant numbers have managed to get out and how?

Racism is promoted by glossing over it, not by exposing it.

I would like to point out one final fact for your consideration. As Sri Lankans, we are quite used to being treated as second-class citizens at international airports. A Sri Lankan passport immediately makes you suspect. We grit our teeth and bear the indignity in the knowledge that many of our fellow citizens do in fact try to migrate illegally. Is airport security personnel simply giving into their human tendency for generalization? How racist would you categorize their action as?

Consider a person of middle-eastern descent in the modern world. They are constantly racially profiled as “terrorists”. It’s human nature to generalize when a significant proportion of “terrorists” are associated with a particular ethnicity. Do you blame the person making that assumption as necessarily a racist? Or just as someone trying to save his/her own skin?

In Sri Lanka, Tamils are treated with suspicion in their very own country. I can relate to the indignity by drawing parallels with other such situations and also because I too have passed through innumerable checkpoints, perhaps with a little less trouble. But should we blame the army personnel for being racist?

My point is, sometimes, it all goes into very grey territory. It’s not clear as to whether the intent is to actively harm the other person based on race or someone merely taking precautionary measures to save one’s own skin.

So when considering this situation of IDP internment. Do you believe the govt. is purely motivated through racism? Or are they just being precautionary? Do you reckon this interment itself has anything to do with race or is it merely the fact that these IDPs lived under LTTE influence? (i.e. the Tamils in the south are not being interned, so is it still racism to intern these IDPs?) What alternative do you propose? Should the govt. take a risk and live with the consequences?

undergroundview said,

October 7, 2009 @ 12:33 am

The Nazis had more than one type of camp for civilian prisoners. There were concentration camps, where large numbers of prisoners were held in a small area. The prisoners were given inadequate rations, and many starved to death, or succumbed to disease. Many of these were labour camps, where hard manual labour also took its toll. In these camps, pretty much the only right a prisoner has was to apply for sterilisation – there was no rule of law, and prisoners were subject to beatings and casual execution.

Then there were the death camps – factories of death, on the assembly line model.

Nobody is comparing the concentration camps in the North to the Nazi death camps – though there are a number of clear parallels with the other sort, as well as a lot of important differences. Sri Lankan society has not reached the level of evil of the Nazi regime – though it’s hardly moving in a very reassuring direction.

Sri Lanka Guardian has an interesting account from one inmate, which illustrates this
http://www.srilankaguardian.org/2009/10/living-in-menik-farm.html

It discusses Administration of the camps, the role of the Military, the Living area, the Retailers permitted, the Health service, Family separation, Deaths, various “Mysterious happenings”, and what inmates talked about. It’s worth a read, though not if you’re squeamish, or want to maintain any illusions you may still have about the happy happy welfare camps.

Heshan said,

October 7, 2009 @ 8:52 am

“300,000 people, men, women, children, old people. detained, like criminals. IT IS INSANITY. There is no right minded democratic state in the world that could get away with this. The people of Sri Lanka can’t see the wood from the trees, they’ve lost their moral compasses, they can’t see what a perverse nightmare of a country they are living in. It is totally sickening.”

Man, I agree with that. The only modern day parallel I can draw are the rape camps and torture camps in the former Bosnia/Yugoslavia. I wonder, why does the world look on blindly… could it be because these (Tamils) possess a little something called “pigmentation”? Would the world look on if 300,000 Europeans were detained in concentration camps? You are right about the people of SL… the vast majority possess a feudal mindset. They are frustrated because they have been living like servants in the throes of economic stagnation for the last 30 years… when ppl r so desperate for money, they will do anything, say anything, believe anything. I will not forget how the last time I was in SL, the 3-wheeler driver carefully folded the change and gave me far less than the correct amount. Or can any of us ignore how the tourist ministry blatantly cheats and lies by charging tourists 1000 rupees and locals 10 rupees to visit a historical site. Into the midst of this desperation, the politicians have thrown a bogey-man called “Tamil separatist.” The bogey-man is used to justify all the ills of the countries. The war has ended but the bogey-man is alive and well. Now, however, the (Southern) people will confront a different kind of demon: the demon of conscience. This demon is not one that will go away so easily through white vans, legislation or begging bowls. Let us await the outcome.

Off the Cuff said,

October 8, 2009 @ 2:17 am

Dear Dr Devanasan Nesiah,

The need of the hour is reconciliation but for some, this will not fit their agenda. Criticism is required but such critiques should be fair, objective and balanced, Inflammatory Headlines and inflammatory language should be avoided, especially by community leaders.

I respect the fact that you respond to critiques of your writings, unlike people like Rohini Hensman, Dr. P. Saravanamuttu and Concerned Citizen, who has so far failed to respond to critiques of their inflammatory articles on this website. Inability or unwillingness to engage in logical discussion reduces a writer to the level of a rabble rouser.

Let me quote from statements made by SL at the 60th Session of the Executive Committee of the UNHCR in Geneva

Quote
…there are still persons among the IDPs who have not disclosed their former affiliation with the LTTE. These persons pose a risk not only to IDPs with whom they are intermingled, but, if released, can cause destabilization and chaos amongst civilians elsewhere in the country. It is for this reason that we have been very careful about releases and permitting full freedom of movement. The Government of Sri Lanka has a responsibility to guarantee the human rights of the entirety of the Sri Lankan population – not only the rights of the IDPs. Allowing LTTE cadres, masquerading as ordinary displaced civilians, freedom of movement, could pose a grave threat to people in the rest of the country.
Unquote

You will note that there is no mention of “de-mining” in the above statement. Hence the Govt has not bandied the need for de-mining as an excuse for the restrictions placed on the IDP’s freedom of movement. The singular reason given is the need to filter the terror cadres from the bona fide IDP’s.

Please also note that there are no “Racial” overtones in the above statement. There is no bias towards any “ONE” race as the words “entirety of the Sri Lankan population” embraces ALL races living in Sri Lanka.

With about 64,000 LTTE fighters living amongst the IDP’s the quoted paragraph is a statement of “FACT” that no right thinking unbiased person can deny.

The statement continues as follows

Quote
The global community knows only too well the atrocities committed by the LTTE against civilian populations. Given the sizeable stores of arms, ammunition and explosives being recovered on a daily basis in the former theatre of conflict and outside that area, the ability of the remnants of the LTTE to carry out indiscriminate acts of terrorism must not be underestimated. This does not mean that attempts to characterize the welfare centers and relief villages as “internment camps” are in any way justified. Limited freedom of movement has been permitted and with the completion of screening, registration and profiling of IDPs, greater freedom of movement would be gradually ensured.
Unquote

Note the point made about munitions and explosives and the statement about relaxation of the current controls as screening progresses to completion

Continuing the statement

Quote
The return and resettlement programme can only be completed when demining can be completed and we expect to be able to report on major advances in this area during the coming weeks. The acquisition of 10 new flailing machines, using Government funds will enable us to clear much more ground and obtain necessary certification from the United Nations agencies concerned. According to the initial survey carried out by the Information Management System on Mine Action, it is estimated that approximately 1.5 million landmines and unexploded ordnance (UXO) contaminate an area of 402 sq km.
Unquote

You will note that the need for completing the de-mining process is brought up ONLY in the context of resettlement.

The density of the mine fields and the millions of dollars of our own funds being expended to purchase the latest equipment (not foreign aid) gives the lie to your “patently false claims” unless it is claimed that the money is expended not because of the need to de-mine expeditiously but to collect kick backs.

The use of innuendo and conjecture is an attempt at glossing over and avoiding difficult questions. The following is an example

Quote
The Vanni IDP population undoubtedly included hardcore ex-LTTE activists. Many of these are now actively engaged with the state and nearly all the other would have escaped or secured their release in one way or another. We may assume that those remaining in internment are those that neither the ex-LTTE leaders now aligned with the state nor the pro-LTTE Diaspora were motivated to set free, i.e. their LTTE activism has been insignificant.
Unquote

Except for the first sentence, the rest is conjecture and innuendo. There is not an iota of fact embedded in it.

The bona fide civilians amongst the IDP’s have been terrorized by the 64,000 terror cadres living in the camps when they were in the Vanni. These civilians were at the receiving end of inhumane punishment that was meted out to them by the cadres. The fear psychosis thus created would take a long time to wear off. Thus, not many people will have the courage to “Finger” when one in four is a terror cadre, for fear of reprisal when they get released. However as the terror cadre density decreases more and more people will come forward to do the fingering. This will not happen in the open but in secrecy. If it’s a trickle now it has the potential to become a deluge later. If there is mistrust about the govts intentions today it will dissipate when they experience the fruits of the govts labour in the future, as it happened in the East.

Let me quote from the UNHCR

“The hostilities produced a new wave of internally displaced persons (IDPs), totaling 211,850 as of July 2008. Additional large-scale displacements were expected before the end of 2008. However, there was a measure of stability in the east of the country, where the Government organized a large-scale return operation in 2007. Provincial elections were held in the first half of 2008, and UNHCR assisted IDP returnees to the area with their reintegration. Between August 2006 and the end of July 2008, some 180,610 individuals had returned to Batticaloa and Trincomalee districts.
Unquote

Now that I have answered the core issues that you have raised in your article and has explained why I consider certain aspects of it as inaccurate, unfair and inflammatory let me answer the charge that you make about me.

I refer you to my first comment ( http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/17/the-internment-%e2%80%93-a-collective-punishment/comment-page-1/#comment-9232 )

Extract
There are many here who are sitting in judgment on the IDP issue. Majority of them don’t have first hand knowledge of the camps. Many act as if this is the first time a govt had acted in this way to overcome a complex situation involving the safety of the population at large. The USA uprooted over 100,000 US citizens of Japanese origin by Executive order of the President and interned them for several years till the end of WW2. Over 50,000 of them were children. The camps were regimented and were located in a dessert with 24 hour armed guard. Canada, Australia and France have acted in the same way.
End extract

Note the opening, … “There are many here who are sitting in judgment…”
As you can see, it refers to the “many” on this thread not to you specifically. You should have realized that the paragraph you quoted was in response to some comments by these “many here”

Here is what one commenter wrote …. “There is no right minded democratic state in the world that could get away with this. The people of Sri Lanka can’t see the wood from the trees, they’ve lost their moral compasses, they can’t see what a perverse nightmare of a country they are living in. It is totally sickening.” End quote

Here is another’s comment …” Sri Lanka is more morally defunct than even Bush’s America. At least the latter targetted its large-scale racism outside its borders and not at its own fellow-citizens.” End quote

Now I would like to refer you to the very end of my first post

Quote ” Internment is wrong …” unquote

I refer you now to my second post please read the opening statement.

“We both agree on one point. Let alone such a large number, the internment of any human being without just cause is wrong. I made this very clear in my earlier post”
(http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/17/the-internment-%e2%80%93-a-collective-punishment/comment-page-1/#comment-9281)

This makes it very clear what my views about unjustified internment are. If you read my other posts on other threads in this site or on the web you will understand what I stand for better.

Need I say more?

As the core issues pertaining to your article has been dealt with adequately, I have refrained from commenting about South Africa, Israel etc as it would unnecessarily lengthen this post

BTW The word Racism means that one race believes that it’s superior to all others. I cannot see it within the general Sri Lankan society, can you?

Off the Cuff said,

October 8, 2009 @ 4:44 pm

Dear Somewhat disgusted

You have stated exactly what I believe in.

Quote “Now more than ever, it’s imperative that we leave no chance for things to revert back to the previous status quo”. Unquote

This is the reason that I spend time to write and I believe that you do too.

The rhetoric of today is similar to the rhetoric that preceded the previous round of violence. It would be a shame if we allow things to start all over again. It’s unbelievable to see apparently learned people going down the same old path. Why they can’t see the damage they are doing to impressionable young minds of both communities I can’t understand.

Sinhalese forms an overwhelming majority in SL and the Tamils are a smaller minority than what they were before. This is a fact and cannot be changed short of exterminating the Sinhalese.

Pre independence, they were ruled by the British and the Tamils in the bureaucracy. Post independence saw it continuing without the British. If the ruling class learned to play fair none of the current problems would have surfaced with such force.

Inequitable demands gave rise to racial enmity. No one seems to learn from the past.

If you observe the comments on any thread on this site you will see many trying to surpass each other trying to score points. Most asides ooze hate. Other than inflame Racist sentiment such comments serve absolutely no purpose in the resolution of the crisis. This is the same on almost any site where the SL issue is discussed.

I believe that community leaders should set the tone and they should act with more circumspection and express balanced views. Then hopefully we shall see the hate comments giving way to rational discussion.

Devanesan Nesiah said,

October 9, 2009 @ 11:54 am

Dear Off the Cuff,

I have never read or heard anything politically inflammatory from Rohini Hensmen or Dr. P. Saravanamuttu. I think they will respond, like I do, to any politely framed critique but not to wild charges of which I’ve seen many.

Regarding the ‘patently false claims’, I have heard and read numerous government spokespersons reported in the media, who have claimed that Internment is needed primarily because de-mining is incomplete. That is patently false. No one believes it any more, but some government spokespersons continue to give that false excuse. But different spokespersons speak differently. The statement you quote has been carefully formulated in non-racist language. But the perception in the minds of many is that Tamils, especially Vanni Tamils, are regarded as naturally suspect and this is why they are interned, just as in war-time USA it was US citizens of Japanese origin, not those of German or Italian origin, who were naturally ‘suspect’ and therefore interned. In any case the internment of such a large number of citizens is grossly disproportionate, and indeed counter-productive, to the absurdly exaggerated threat referred to in the statement that you quote. A ridiculous estimate of 64,000 ‘terror cadres’ is a clear reflection of the paranoid distrust of the Vanni Tamils.

Regarding conjecture and innuendo; is it a fact or conjecture that the last numbers of LTTE cadres crossed over with Karuna and Pillayan and decisively fought the LTTE alongside the armed forces of the State? Is it not true also of some former Eelamists and now anti-LTTE paramilitary groups who have worked along side state troops for many years? How are these cadres funded? Is it entirely through LTTE style fund raising or do they also get government subsidies? This is a matter for conjecture and I will not venture on an opinion. Denial of the role of such para-military groups will not fool anyone because these organisations admit to it and, in fact, are proud of what they have done. Regarding large numbers of pro-LTTE personnel escaping from the camps, this has been publicly confirmed by several government spokespersons. How can you say that there is not an iota of fact embedded in these ‘conjectures’?

I referred to racist ideologies precisely to distinguish these from particular racist acts such as Internment. I agree that Sri Lankan society is not basically racist, but we have individuals and small groups that are racist and, if racist policies are persisted with our society may drift in that direction.

I believe that there is a growing realisation within the island that Internment has been and continues to be a major disaster for Sri Lanka. It has embittered and alienated the Tamil population and is an insurmountable barrier to national integration. I have not spoken to a single Tamil who think otherwise. Even among the Sinhalese I see a significant and continuing shift against Internment. Are we retaining Internment because we don’t want to appear to be giving in to foreign pressure? Or for fear of a few small racist groups who will create problems for us by accusing the state of surrendering to foreign pressure or being soft towards the Tamils? Do we want to continue with Internment until we are forced to abandon it? The best reason to abandon it is to undo a terrible wrong to a large section of our citizens. That way some good will, domestic and international, can be salvaged and the process of national reconstruction can begin. The longer we wait the more difficult it will be.

Off the Cuff said,

October 10, 2009 @ 2:00 am

Dear Dr Devanasan Nesiah,

Let’s analyze your statement in detail

Quote
The Vanni IDP population undoubtedly included hardcore ex-LTTE activists. Many of these are now actively engaged with the state and nearly all the other would have escaped or secured their release in one way or another. We may assume that those remaining in internment are those that neither the ex-LTTE leaders now aligned with the state nor the pro-LTTE Diaspora were motivated to set free, i.e. their LTTE activism has been insignificant.
Unquote

“The Vanni IDP population undoubtedly included hardcore ex-LTTE activists”
Absolutely true

“Many of these are now actively engaged with the state”
This is untrue as the ONLY IDP’s that may be involved with the State are those who provide information or “finger” the hiding cadres.

The example you brought of Karuna and Pilleyan and their followers are not tenable as they were NEVER IDP’s and we are discussing IDPs. The numbers amongst Karuna and Pileyan groups cannot be subtracted from IDP numbers as you suggest. So there is no question of any denial of the roles these two groups played in the war.

Karuna and Pilleyan broke away from the LTTE long before the Vanni IDP’s ever existed.

“and nearly ALL the other would have escaped or secured their release in one way or another.”
Note the word “ALL”. This is your hypothesis and is conjecture. There are no facts supporting your claim.

Yes SOME have managed to escape due to corrupt officials, NGOs and INGOs (see my previous posts) but your statement says “nearly all”. Quite a statement when you consider the numbers

“We may assume that those remaining in internment are those that neither the ex-LTTE leaders now aligned with the state nor the pro-LTTE Diaspora were motivated to set free, i.e. their LTTE activism has been insignificant.”
Again this is your assumption and is not based on factual data. It’s based on your first two hypotheses which had no basis in fact. Hence the above falls into the category of conjecture an innuendo

As you see, I was not unfair in describing your statement the way I did.

I quoted the Official govt statement that was delivered at the UNHRC meeting. Demeaning it by stating……“The statement you quote has been carefully formulated in non-racist language.” ….. was not expected of you.
That was a low blow and is unbecoming of a person of your stature among the Tamil community. It also shows preconceived and latent displeasure of the govt. What do you think a Govt statement should look like? Racist?

You further state “A ridiculous estimate of 64,000 ‘terror cadres’ is a clear reflection of the paranoid distrust of the Vanni Tamils” ….. I know it is a shocking figure; I too was taken aback with the result I got but is it really ridiculous?

Is it not true that the LTTE compelled each Vanni Tamil family to contribute at least ONE person to join its fighting forces?
Is it not true that there are approx 250,000 IDPs in the camps?
Is taking an AVERAGE Tamil family size of 4 persons an under estimation?
If the above statements are correct then there are 64,000 families in the camps.

As NO ONE under the LTTE dared to disobey Prabhakaran’s commands, a contribution of ONE person by each family to fight for the LTTE brings the cadre strength to 64,000. Unbelievable but true.

Even if you take an average Tamil family to have 5 members (which would be an overestimate) the number of families will drop to 50,000 and the number of trained LTTE cadres to 50,000. Remember that I took only one person per family but there are known cases where more than that in a family fought for the LTTE.

You see, the inflated IDP numbers thrown around freely cuts both ways. The higher the IDPs the higher will be the Terror Cadres.

If you still insist that my estimate though shocking is “ridiculous” you should give an estimate based on known facts that will counter what I said. Innuendo is not good enough

Even if you take the lower figure of 50,000 it means that One in Five is a Terrorist.

If you want to lower the Terror Cadre figure even below 50,000 you need to do one of two things. Prove that the AVERAGE Tamil family is bigger than my estimate (you might be opening a Pandora’s box) or prove that Prabhakaran did not demand and get one member from each family living under his dictatorship.

I am very sorry to see you describing “Internment” as a racist act. For an act to be deemed “Racist” the logic or reasoning behind the act should solely target a race. There cant be any other reason driving that act

In the case of the IDPs there is a large number of Terror Cadres hiding amongst them (as shown above). You cannot deny that the LTTE buried Arms, Munitions and explosives everywhere, they did (even Artillery guns and suicide boats have been unearthed). These are established facts.

The govt has stated unambiguously at the UNHCR that internment will end when screening for terror cadres ends. This is the stated reason. Just because the IDPs “Happen” to belong to the Tamil race you cannot ignore the stated reason and call it racist.

The logic behind the reason is not racist. The logic is the protection of the 20,000,000 population which consists of Tamils, Sinhalese, Muslims, and any other race inhabiting this island called Sri Lanka. It is to protect EVERY race in Sri Lanka so how can it be racist?

I am glad that you agree that Sri Lankan society is not basically racist. I too have a firm belief of that. Sri Lanka was known for her hospitality and friendly people (irrespective of race). I hope you will portray it as such in your future writings.

Any country has its extremists can you name a country without them?

You ask “Are we retaining Internment because we don’t want to appear to be giving in to foreign pressure?” I would say no, that is the least of our troubles.

Then you ask “Or for fear of a few small racist groups who will create problems for us by accusing the state of surrendering to foreign pressure or being soft towards the Tamils?”

How did that “soft towards the Tamils” part come in? Won’t that have a racist undertone in it? It may be force of habit and may be inadvertent but still it is inflammatory.

As pointed out in all my posts restricting the freedom of movement of the SL IDPs is based on protecting the inhabitants of SL (Tamils, Muslims, Sinhalese, Burghers, Malays etc included). Race does not come into consideration at all.

You say “That way some good will, domestic and international, can be salvaged and the process of national reconstruction can begin.” Did you consider how soon that goodwill can evaporate if a single explosion or suicide attack takes place afterward? Do you discount the possibility of a backlash from the civilian population and the rank and file of the Armed Forces? Remember they sacrificed 26,000 lives and probably double that are permanently disabled. no possibility of a feeling of justifiable anger at being let down? No possibility of that overflowing to the streets? No possibility of a complete breakdown in Law and Order?

Devanesan Nesiah said,

October 15, 2009 @ 12:18 pm

Dear Off the Cuff,

I have heard that many of the IDPs taken away either before admission to the camps or after the period of internment are now with one or the other of the pro-state para-militia. Whether these numbers are hundreds or thousands in scale I do not know. Nor do I know how many thousands disappeared in other ways. Unfortunately because of prevailing climate of secrecy and lack of transparency there is much misinformation and it is virtually impossible to get at the truth on many matters.

Regarding the “statement formulated in non-racist language”, my comment was complimentary and not demeaning. I think every statement should be so formulated as not to precipitate racist reactions. Unlike Sri Lanka, many countries have legislation to punish any one resorting to racist language and racist stereotypes.

Regarding your calculations, the problem is not with the arithmetic (I’m not interested in marginally increasing or decreasing estimated figures) but with the definitions. A child forcibly recruited into any militia is a victim of terrorism, not a terrorist. Over several years, a small minority among them could develop into “terror cadres”, but the vast majority would retain their wish to get back to their families and to civilian life. If they do not take the first opportunity to flee back to their families, it is because they fear recapture and punishment. Since the LTTE has ceased to exist in this island, fear of the LTTE no longer exists. None of these persons would have any motive to commit terrorist acts on behalf of the non-existent LTTE. If any do resort to terrorism, it would be on account of new factors such as resentment generated in the detention centres. It is those factors that need to be addressed.

I have identified particular policies as racist but I’ve never suggested that the people of Sri Lanka are racist. My publications over four decades will bear that out. Is racism a factor in the internment? Since virtually all the 260,000 yet detained as well as the several thousands of IDPs who have “disappeared”, are Tamils comprising almost enrtirety of the population of two districts, the presumption of racism is inescapable. If at the outset (i.e. in mid-May 2009) a team of community leaders from the Vanni (excluding those associated with any militia, whether LTTE or pro-state), together with selected currently serving or recently retired Tamil speaking public servants were recruited to monitor the screening by security personnel and to help to work out a scheme for the resettlement of the IDPs; that task could have been completed within weeks. The IDPs would have respected and cooperated with the team, and much good will would have been created, benefiting the state and contributing to rebuilding inter ethnic relations. There are hundreds in the above categories who would have served willingly and contributed greatly.

Such proposals were made. Why were they not acted on? Is it because Tamils, especially those from or associated with the Vanni cannot be trusted? This racist prejudice is the basis of the fear that terrorist acts will follow the release of the Vanni population. Even if there are a few former were hard line LTTE-ers among them, what motive would they have to resort to terrorism? And what support will they get from the others? The entire community will turn against and expose them; it is the Vanni people who would least want a return to civil war or terrorism. If you have doubts ask Mr. Anadasangaree, their former MP, who knows the Vanni people as well as anyone else; or any disinterested (i.e. not connected with any militia) Vanni community leader. Racism is also at the root of Vanni Tamils being harassed at checkpoints or un-lawfully detained at police stations. This is not conjecture but a fact that I can substantiate; so can almost any Tamil of Vanni origin living in the South.

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 15, 2009 @ 7:32 pm

Dear Devanesan Nesiah,

You said: “Is it because Tamils, especially those from or associated with the Vanni cannot be trusted? This racist prejudice is the basis of the fear that terrorist acts will follow the release of the Vanni population. ”

I guess that statement is indeed true. There is heavy distrust of Tamils by the govt. because of fears of links to the LTTE. I suppose it’s also a fact that the LTTE did manage to infiltrate/coerce/recruit from the highest echelons of power from even international players, lending weight to the govt.’s fear/paranoia. How racist can that fear/paranoia deemed to be? This harks back to a question I addressed to you in my previous post.

Honestly, I don’t know and you’re probably right in saying it is. It certainly is racial profiling but I’m just wondering how these things can be practically resolved given the circumstances. On the one hand, it’s unfair by Tamil people. On the other, we really do have a serious problem that needs to be resolved pragmatically. So how is such a dilemma to be resolved? Your thoughts on this would be welcome.

Off the Cuff said,

October 17, 2009 @ 4:59 pm

Dear Dr Devanasan Nesiah,

I too am aware that a large number of LTTE recruits were forced to join. Indeed they are innocent victims of LTTE barbarism. Yes the govt has a duty to rehabilitate and release them as soon as possible. Since you agree with the Arithmetic, even if 25% of the 62,500 form a hardcore it will amount to 15,000 – 16,000 hardcore terrorists. Approximately 11,000 have been identified which leaves a balance of about 5000 Hardcore LTTE in hiding.

Buried armaments, munitions and explosives are still being found. These falling into the hands of the hardcore cadres would be a worry that the govt would have. This is a legitimate worry as the govt has to protect the larger civilian population in the rest of the island.

The economy is just beginning to recover and it will get reversed if any terrorist attacks take place again. I don’t think the govt would risk such a relapse with threats of GSP+ and other sanctions looming over the horizon.

The govt has set itself a deadline of 180 days to resettle the majority of IDP’s. We see that process moving forward slowly at this point in time (2000 people were resettled a few days ago) but I believe the pace would pick up as the deadline approaches and the momentum builds up.

SomewhatDisgusted raises some valid points about the fears the govt has which coincides with mine. It may be paranoia but is there a reasonable cause for such paranoia? It may be that the multi faceted external and internal pressure that is brought to bear on the govt is also a contributory factor in making the govt suspicious that the real intention is to get the hardcore LTTE released before they are identified.

With regards to the IDP’s the statistics of the UN that is available on the web are not round figures but odd figures. This indicates the existence of reasonably accurate statistics of the internees. The govt will have to account for these numbers even at a later date.

Referring now to your post of October 15, 2009 @ 12:18 pm

When you use the words “I have heard that…..” you actually mean that it’s “rumored” though in mitigation for using rumor you stated reason “……prevailing climate of secrecy and lack of transparency there is much misinformation and it is virtually impossible to get at the truth on many matters…” is also true. That said, you will not find openness that we tend to demand in relation to security matters. This is true outside of Sri Lanka as well.

I believe that to assume that the LTTE is non existent and is no longer a threat is too premature an assumption.

The Fund raising and Propaganda arms are still intact. The contacts used in procuring arms and explosives are still intact (the head is caught the lieutenants are still at large). Billions of US dollars collected are still intact. The organizational capacity is still intact (just look at how coordinated protests were organized overseas). A large number of terror cadres are still living among the genuine civilian IDP’s. Undiscovered munitions, explosives and arms are still hidden within 402 Sq Km in the Vanni and more outside that area. What the LTTE lacks is armed cadres who have the freedom to move and launch attacks as they are now restricted to the IDP camps.

If I were a LTTE leader my first priority would be obtaining the release of those cadres within the camps. The singular disability the LTTE has at this moment of time.

The first and the most powerful tool that I would use would be HR issues of the IDP’s. I would use all the resources at my command, International contacts, groups such as HRW, People like you who are leaders of the Tamil community, UNHRC Navi Pillai (who would have an empathy to Tamils), Public demonstrations etc. in order to achieve my objective. I will manipulate and inflame feelings of the Tamil community to pressurize the govt before it has a chance to identify all the hiding cadres. Since if they are caught my disability becomes permanent and harder to overcome.

HR issues are such a powerful tool that it can bring a weak Govt to its knees as even the economy could be placed under threat.

Though I have not read what you have written before, I will not doubt that you have moderate views. However when I compare how you express your views and those expressed by Dr P. Jeganathan, I observe you getting carried away with emotion and losing dispassionate objectivity. As a Sinhalese I become emotional when I see gross lies being spread about the Sinhalese as a community but I strive to suppress them and dissect an issue dispassionately. How much I have succeeded in doing that I do not know but I try with honesty.

Generally speaking, people of Sri Lanka are not racist, both you and I agree on this unequivocally. We must strive to convey this every time. When posing questions about their outlook on issues, the framing must make it clear. If unsaid the implication is the converse.

When we talk of Tamil problems we must not ignore the problems faced by other communities pertaining to what is discussed. The roots of post colonial problems are not independent of the colonial era when the Bureaucracy had a dominant Tamil representation which continued past independence. This must be acknowledged and included in the analysis to prevent it being lopsided.

Referring to the current article, the heading you used reminded me of my school days when the class bullies would do something mischievous and would refuse to own up. No one dared to cross the path of the bullies and the perpetrators remained hidden from the authorities. The whole class would get collectively punished until someone owned up and when that failed, each of us would be questioned in private and eventually the culprits got caught. No one knew who had given the culprits away. This was a collective punishment.

If we take the population of SL it can be sub divided into the ethnic subsets. Of these ethnic subsets the probability of finding a terrorist is very high in the Tamil subset than in the others. The Tamil subset can be further subdivided into those who lived under the LTTE and those who did not. The probability of a terrorist being found in the later subset is much smaller than the probability of finding one in the former. Both subsets are Tamil but one has a higher density of Terrorists than the other, this is the subset living as IDP’s. This same rationale when applied to the JVP uprising would point to the Sinhala subset to the exclusion of the other subsets including the Tamils.

As shown above, the reason that a single race becomes implicated in the current situation depends on which race causes the problem, not due to any racial bias. This must be recognized when discussing or writing about the problem else the argument fails due to emotional bias.

wijayapala said,

October 18, 2009 @ 2:34 am

Off the cuff,

The govt has set itself a deadline of 180 days to resettle the majority of IDP’s. We see that process moving forward slowly at this point in time (2000 people were resettled a few days ago) but I believe the pace would pick up as the deadline approaches and the momentum builds up.

What if it doesn’t- what if the majority of the IDPs are still in the camps after 180 days? What is the benchmark for failure by the government to deal with this situation?

Since you agree with the Arithmetic, even if 25% of the 62,500 form a hardcore it will amount to 15,000 – 16,000 hardcore terrorists.

I can’t speak for Dr. Nesiah (he’s doing an excellent job keeping the discussion civilized) but those numbers are not credible. If Prabakaran had 62,500 cadre or even 15,000 hardcore terrorists then he probably would be still alive and the LTTE would still control Kilinochchi.

The gaping flaw in the above calculation is that it takes absolutely no account of the cadre who were killed over the last 2 years of combat. It also doesn’t account for families whose members were too young or too old to fight, and the overwhelming bulk of underage and overage cadre forced into fighting would not have the commitment of the “hardcore” veterans. Your math also neglects the proportion of wounded, sick, or otherwise incapacitated individuals of fighting age.

SomewhatDisgusted raises some valid points about the fears the govt has which coincides with mine. It may be paranoia but is there a reasonable cause for such paranoia?

I am a paranoid person myself, but fear in general and paranoia in particular does not help much to heal post-conflict societies. Paranoia was a large part of how we got into this mess. The SL Tamils were largely a harmless and inoffensive people until 1983, yet many Sinhala big-mouths could not distinguish the Tamils from Cholas who lived 1000 years ago (Dr. Nalin de Silva still can’t make the distinction). This paranoia went a long way towards building the LTTE.

Fear is usually the symptom of ignorance. In this case there is an ignorance (whether we have the balls to admit it or not) regarding the IDPs’ intentions, and to fill this gap in our heads we must come up with speculations and assumptions, which are unfortunately not a great substitute for sound knowledge.

If I were a LTTE leader my first priority would be obtaining the release of those cadres within the camps. The singular disability the LTTE has at this moment of time.

You raise an important question: who is currently the LTTE leader? If you can’t answer this question, I would argue that the LTTE has quite a bit more disabilities than you’re letting on.

However when I compare how you express your views and those expressed by Dr P. Jeganathan, I observe you getting carried away with emotion and losing dispassionate objectivity. As a Sinhalese I become emotional when I see gross lies being spread about the Sinhalese as a community but I strive to suppress them and dissect an issue dispassionately. How much I have succeeded in doing that I do not know but I try with honesty.

It would help if you could identify for us which of Dr. Nesiah’s statements lack dispassionate objectivity.

If fear is an emotion, then I would argue that you are not looking at the situation dispassionately.

Off the Cuff said,

October 18, 2009 @ 8:58 pm

Dear Mr. wijayapala,

Thank you for your response. Hope you will help us to cotinue the discussion within the civil boundaries that have been observed in this thread.

BTW this discussion is very long I trust that you have read all the relevant posts.

You ask “What if it doesn’t- what if the majority of the IDPs are still in the camps after 180 days?”

Since we have no way to look into the future we have to wait and see. Once the self imposed deadline passes bring in the maximum pressure on the Govt that can be mustered collectively. They won over Prabhakaran’s terrorism as they said they would. They resettled the IDP’s in the East. So give the Govt space to do what they have to do.

You say, “I can’t speak for Dr. Nesiah (he’s doing an excellent job keeping the discussion civilized) but those numbers are not credible.”

I have given how I arrived at the numbers. You need to counter them by providing your own estimate based on known facts as I have done. Unless I know how you think I wont be able to comment on your figures.

You say “I am a paranoid person myself, but fear in general and paranoia in particular does not help much to heal post-conflict societies.”

The temporary restriction on freedom of movement is not about “healing post-conflict societies” that comes afterward. This is about keeping a 20,000,000 population safe from roadside bombs, bombs in public transport, bombs in shopping malls, commando attacks on unarmed villages etc. We who live in SL were exposed to all this, I believe you, your wife and your children were also similarly exposed and you know how it feels.

You say, “The SL Tamils were largely a harmless and inoffensive people until 1983,”

When you say largely it implies the existence of a smaller section that were not harmless. It is that section of the Tamil polity that ruled the Govt service pre Independence and continued to rule the bureaucracy post independence. They were not willing to share power equitably with the Sinhalese majority and actively blocked entry into the Govt service by the Sinhalese. Many govt departments were over 90% Tamil from the lowest rank to the highest. It was a time when the largest employer happened to be the Govt.

It was this section of the Tamil polity along with power hungry Tamil politicians that turned the “Largely” Tamil polity to think of racism and it happened long before 1983.

You say, “(Dr. Nalin de Silva still can’t make the distinction)”

That is irrelevant in this thread and I can’t speak for him. You need to discuss that with him if it’s a problem for you.

What I wrote is “…If I were a LTTE leader…” notice the “a” it is not a “the”… it changes the meaning quite a bit wont it? Tamil Chelvam, Karuna, Soossai, Nadesan were all leaders not “the” leader.

You ask “It would help if you could identify for us which of Dr. Nesiah’s statements lack dispassionate objectivity”

I have made that very clear in my previous discussions with Dr Nesaiah please read them

wijayapala said,

October 19, 2009 @ 6:38 am

Off the cuff,

I have given how I arrived at the numbers. You need to counter them by providing your own estimate based on known facts as I have done. Unless I know how you think I wont be able to comment on your figures.

And I have debunked your methodology. I do not need to provide my own estimate for a figure which I more or less already indicated that it is virtually impossible for an interested outsider to independently calculate. Putting aside the variables I mentioned above that you did not account for, your numbers are ludicrous from a military perspective. You’re essentially arguing that the LTTE currently has more members in the camps than the combined number of SLA troops who directly participated in the final offensive in May!!

Defencewire in January 2008 estimated that there were 6,000 LTTE “regulars,” a 2,000-man naval unit, and 15,000 civilian militia members, for a grand total of 23,000 Tigers. I have no means to independently confirm these numbers, but they are the best estimate I can provide from a website having some contact with the military. It would be reasonable to assume that the LTTE after this point could not recruit more cadre than the SLA was killing, so I treat 23,000 as the absolute maximum. The SLA for its part claimed that it killed 22,000 cadre. If we assume that the LTTE managed to recruit half this number in the final year and a half of the war, then we wind up with roughly the same figure of Tigers who are currently in SLA custody.

For this reason, combined with the fact that the IDPs have not been able to mount a credible threat to the SLA, I would conclude that there are only a few hundred Tigers at large at an absolute maximum. This estimate would include those who managed to escape the island, leaving an even lower number if any number still unapprehended in the camps.

The temporary restriction on freedom of movement is not about “healing post-conflict societies” that comes afterward. This is about keeping a 20,000,000 population safe from roadside bombs, bombs in public transport, bombs in shopping malls, commando attacks on unarmed villages etc.

I might be trembling a bit more if there had been a single such attack in the five months since the LTTE’s annihilation. Now before you explain this interesting phenomenon as the result of locking up the IDPs, take a look at this database. You will see that quite a number of Tigers were caught in Colombo while trying to escape the island. So not only do we have Tigers who are still active in the South without blowing up anything, but they apparently don’t think they have a chance to restart any sort of militant campaign in the island and want to get the hell out.

In fact, the only post-war terrorist incident I am aware of was the recent school bus explosion instigated by a sergeant in the SLA. Does this suggest that there may be a greater threat from disgruntled members of the security forces than the Sri Lankan Tamil population?

We who live in SL were exposed to all this, I believe you, your wife and your children were also similarly exposed and you know how it feels.

What do you think about those having wives and children stuck in these camps with the monsoon approaching? What do you think those children will remember of this period when they reach the same age as young Prabhakaran when he first picked up the gun?

You say, “The SL Tamils were largely a harmless and inoffensive people until 1983,”

“When you say largely it implies the existence of a smaller section that were not harmless. It is that section of the Tamil polity that ruled the Govt service pre Independence and continued to rule the bureaucracy post independence.

Please educate me how the Tamils in the civil service were “not harmless.” How many people (i.e. Sinhalese) did they kill?

They … actively blocked entry into the Govt service by the Sinhalese.

What is your evidence (assuming that the Tamils even dominated the civil service after 1956, which is quite questionable)?

It was this section of the Tamil polity along with power hungry Tamil politicians that turned the “Largely” Tamil polity to think of racism and it happened long before 1983.

I had thought that the “Largely” Tamil polity turned to think of racism after 1956 “Sinhala-Only” which relegated them to a second-class status in the island. Before 1956, the Tamil vote was split between the UNP and the Tamil Congress which did not call for a Tamil homeland. The latter’s rival, the Federal Party (ITAK) was not accepted by the “Largely” Tamil polity until 1956.

You didn’t answer my point though- the words I used were “harmless” and “inoffensive.” You could disprove this point by listing acts of violence committed by Tamils against Sinhalese before 1983. Racist after all does not equate to dangerous; the JHU after all is a racist party but it is no threat to anybody.

You say, “(Dr. Nalin de Silva still can’t make the distinction)”
“That is irrelevant in this thread and I can’t speak for him.

On the contrary, ignorance and the paranoia that it creates is entirely relevant to this thread. My grandfather told me that when he was young, most of the other villagers believed that the entire population of India was Tamil (he grew up in Ratnapura and later became a translator in the tea plantations). However, the Buddha was somehow a Sinhala!

A Tamil stereotype of us is that we’re naive and gullible- if somebody tells us that there’s a Tamil conspiracy to destroy Sri Lanka then we’re too eager to believe it without thinking (not very different from the Sunanda Deshapriya variety of Sinhalese who believe that there is a Sinhala conspiracy to destroy Sri Lanka). We are ignorant of the Tamils and we have suffered as a result. In the process of treating the Tamils as a greater threat than they were, they became that very threat.

What I wrote is “…If I were a LTTE leader…” notice the “a” it is not a “the”… it changes the meaning quite a bit wont it? Tamil Chelvam, Karuna, Soossai, Nadesan were all leaders not “the” leader.

Thank you for the clarification. Could you name **a** single LTTE leader who is still active in Sri Lanka? Would you include Daya Master and George, whom our justice system had released on bail?

You ask “It would help if you could identify for us which of Dr. Nesiah’s statements lack dispassionate objectivity”
“I have made that very clear in my previous discussions with Dr Nesaiah please read them

I’m afraid you weren’t very clear. I could not find any statement of Dr. Nesiah where he lost his cool.

Vichara said,

October 19, 2009 @ 10:13 am

One must first thank “groundviews” for keeping open this blog which has been very informative and interesting. The comments of ‘Off the Cuff and ‘Somewhat disgusted’ have dealt comprehensively with the issues concerned with the IDPs. The following comments are mainly on the accusations made by Dr. Devanesan Nesiah (DN) on the lack of sensitivity of the government with regard to the trials and tribulations of the Tamil community and the misinterpretation of the history of the ethnic problem.

When he asks the question whether “Are our tribal instincts superseding our religious and ethical principles?” one is expected to generalize and infer that he refers to all communities. This sweeping generalization is belied by his persistent reference in the use of this term to describe the plight of those ”interned” in the IDP camps. DN’s repeated use of this term, virtually in a derogatory sense, leads one to the inescapable conclusion that the Govt. is ‘racist’ in its treatment of Tamil refugees in these camps.
The manner in which DN uses certain heavily loaded terms like “territory conquered” from the LTTE” and the ‘civil war’, somewhat loosely and with studied casualness to mislead the reader.
He also writes passionately about “…negotiations for the release of the hostages in exchange for some concessions to the captors”! Clearly, this is an allusion to the failure of the Govt. to enter into negotiations with the LTTE before the final battle. The LTTE was given a chance to surrender but refused to avail of it relying more on the expected success of the pressures exerted by the Diaspora and Western powers to force the Govt. to negotiate. The LTTE ‘protectors’ were all the while, taking cover behind a human wall of hapless civilians in areas declared by the Govt. as a no fire zone. The Govt. was not going to bite the bait this time after the countless lessons it had learnt of how terms like ‘ceasefire and ‘negotiations’ were empty and meaningless subterfuges employed by the LTTE to have a breather to regroup and attack.

While conceding that “Identifying with natural disaster-stricken victims and generously helping them is an admirable characteristic of Sri Lankans of all ethnic groups,” DN raises the question “ Do ethnic differences suppress our generosity when the disaster is caused by ethnicity-related political oppression or violence? Is that the kind of people we are? Is that how we see ourselves?” He has conveniently forgotten that amidst what Ban Ki Moon called “triumphalism” there was an extraordinary response from the Sinhala community to provide immediate material support to the unfortunate hostages rescued from the LTTE. Places of worship served as collection centers for foodstuffs, clothing etc.

Continuing his accusations against the government DN ventures into controversial territory and repeats the hackneyed half – truths, which is not expected from a person of his calibre. He states that, “ When the Indian Tamils in our midst were suddenly deprived of citizenship and voting rights in 1949, it was a tragedy for the one million Indian Tamils.”
Firstly, the franchise was an issue settled on the recommendation of the Donoughmore Commission and incorporated in the Order in Council 1931. Donoughmore Commission in its report of 1928 (p.87) stated, “We have decided to recommend the adoption of manhood suffrage. On this basis according to the figures supplied to us, the possible voting strength of the electorate will be increased to 1,200,000. We desire however to make two reservations. In the first place we consider it very desirable that a qualification of five years residence in the Island (allowing the temporary absence not exceeding eight months in all during the five years period) should be introduced in order that the privilege of voting should be confined to those who have an abiding interest in the country or who may be regarded as permanently settled in the Island…. this condition will be of particular importance in its application to the Indian immigrant population. Secondly, we consider that the registration of voters should not be compulsory or automatic but should be restricted to those who apply for it…”.

What happened in 1949 was that franchise, as the accepted practice in most countries, was confined to citizens of the country. The population count affected by the legislation in 1949 is also a typical exaggeration, (just like the number of civilian casualties of the final battle). According to the Ceylon population report of 1946, there were 784,708 Indian Tamils and 42,141 Indian Moors in the country of a total population of 6,657,339 at this population census.
There was nothing sudden in the determination of Ceylon citizenship. At the Commonwealth Conference in 1947, it was agreed that each of the self-governing dominions (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Union of South Africa, Newfoundland, India, Pakistan, Southern Rhodesia and Ceylon) would introduce separate citizenships for those persons who belonged to each country. Ceylon Citizenship Act No 18 of 1948 defined citizenship by descent. Before the enactment of the Citizenship Act all citizens resident in Ceylon were British Citizens. Hence, there was no question of ‘depriving’ the plantation Tamils Ceylon Citizenship. If at all what they were deprived of was their constitutional right under Section 8 of the Constitution of India to be eligible for Indian citizenship, inspire of their residence outside India. This was a perverse act of India.
The Indian and Pakistani (Resident Citizenship) Act of 1949 laid down the qualifications for the grant of citizenship. The Act was passed with members of the Tamil Congress led by G. G Ponnampalam voting with the government. In 1954, in the G.S.N.Kodakan Pillai appeal case, the legality of the citizenship and franchise laws were considered by the Privy Council. The Privy Council concluded that the Citizenship and Franchise Acts are intra vires the Ceylon legislature, and they therefore duly advised Her Majesty that the appeal ought to be dismissed and that the appellant must pay the costs of the appeal.” In coming to this conclusion the Privy Council took into consideration that the migratory habits of the Indian Tamils (para. 123 and para 203, Soulbury Report) are facts, which, are directly relevant to the question of their suitability as citizens of Ceylon, and have nothing to do with them as a community.

A stark fact that DN has forgotten is that Tamil leaders tried very hard to canvass the Soulbury Commission against adult franchise. It is on record that Sir Ponnampalam had pleaded with the Commissioners that the constitution they proposed was extremely ill suited to the needs of the country, and when they replied that, he was the one who was out of tune with times, Ramanathan, in sheer exasperation, had cried out, “It is meaningless casting pearls before swine”!

It is not surprising that DN’s next target is the language issue. He again makes a highly generalized statement that Tamil-speaking persons were suddenly deprived of their language rights in 1956.Language rights of a citizen consist of three fundamental aspects. These are the right to use one’s own language in transactions with the State. Next is the right to appear at competitive tests for employment in the public service in one’s language. The most important language right is the medium of instruction in schools and Institutes of higher education. DN prefers to ignore the two more important aspects of language rights. The impression created is that the Official Language Act deprived the Tamil community of employment in the Public Service and access to higher education.
Here again, the term ‘suddenly’ is repeated to make the Language Act look more discriminatory. When he makes this remark, DN ignores the fact that although the Official Language Act 1956 came into operation on July 7 1956, time was given to continue under existing arrangements until 31 December 1960. Meanwhile, the Tamil Language Special Provisions Act was given assent on 4 September 1958. It was not fully implemented due to the climate of violence created in the county and the assassination of then Prime Minister.

In making the statement that “ most of those of other linguistic groups appeared to be indifferent to the pain of the Tamil-speaking population” DN forgets that the left parties vehemently opposed at the expense of their political popularity, the Sinhala only policy, outside as well a in the House of Representatives. The reward that they received from the Tamil community for this sacrifice was that not a single left party Tamil member was elected to the House of Representatives at the 1956 general elections.

.
Finally DN states, “Four months ago, in the midst of the war, we could have been excused for paying inadequate attention to humanitarian issues and letting our political objectives and tribal instincts overcome our religious and ethical values.” It is obvious that this is an attempt to accuse the government and the Defence forces of acting on “tribal instincts” during the final battle. If the Defence forces acted on tribal instincts they could have finished the job in a couple of hours by aerial bombardment of that narrow strip of land where the LTTE was finally trapped in. Instead their discipline, ethical and moral values, made them, to advance with care and circumspection, scrupulously minimizing civilian casualties and sacrificing in the process thousands of soldiers who were either killed or maimed.

DN has traversed a devious path from pre independence to reach the IDP camps at which point he raises question, “Should we not urge the immediate release of those wrongfully detained?” He does not seem to be interested in what happens to the IDPs after their release. Just open the gates and let them go!! There is no concern on relocation and rehabilitation.

DN is a person with a long association with the UN system. He cannot be unaware of the conditions recommended by the UN system that should be fulfilled by the government on the relocation of IDPs. Two of the relevant conditions are given below for his edification.
a) Make necessary preparations to ensure that areas of return are safe, these include clearance of all mines and UXO; ensuring that return sites are not near military installations, high security zones…
b) Make necessary preparations to ensure that basic infrastructure is in place to ensure a sustainable and dignified return. This includes provision/ restoration of basic shelter and housing reconstruction, food, water and sanitation, medical services, education facilities, public transport, places of worship and civil administration offices and access to viable livelihood activities.

DN would have done better, without delving into problems in the first half of the twentieth century, which have been since resolved, if he focused on the reasons adduced by the authorities why the IDPs cannot be relocated immediately and the steps that are being taken to relocate and rehabilitate them as early as possible.
If he has the will he has the expertise to support the authorities to expedite the process.

VICHARA

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 19, 2009 @ 12:15 pm

Dear Off-the-cuff, Wijayapala and Vichara,

Some very interesting posts indeed. I feel that Wijayapala has a valid point about the number of serious cadres within the IDPs. As he points out, the methodology of dividing the number of people by family size is unlikely to render an accurate figure under the current circumstances, although it is still indicative of the very high number of potential cadres we must contend with overall. Having said that, there is also a considerable amount of confusion regarding this matter, given the reports that 10,000 members have been identified so far and rumours of 20,000 people escaping (who were they then?).

Still, if Wijayapala’s estimate is correct, the remaining cadres pose no serious security threat. What then, would be the reason for continued incarceration? Is it pure paranoia on the part of the govt? I see the task of discovering hidden weapon caches remains a valid reason, but when offset against the fact that many of the interned people are harmless and have already suffered untold hardships, it no longer seems to carry enough weight to justify their continued internment. In fact, if there is no solid reason for doing this, continued internment will only generate ill-will, apart from being morally unjustifiable.

I should add, I too believe that people who have had continuous exposure to terrorist ideologies must undergo some sort of rehabilitation process. However, that does not justify keeping them interned either. After all, can’t they be rehabilitated outside of the camps?

The main reason I’ve chosen to defend the actions of the govt. so far, has always been on the grounds that the govt. has requested 6 months in order to sort out the problem, and after 30 long years in which these IDPs basically lived to fullfill the whims of a despot, 6 months of restricted freedom-of-movement seems a reasonable time frame. However, the 6 month period is almost over, and any reasons for continued incarceration should be based on solid reasons. So the question is, is the reasoning really solid?

Vichara, thank you for that most informative post. This is more of what we need – solid, factual argumentation.

Off the Cuff said,

October 20, 2009 @ 12:04 am

Dear Mr. wijayapala,

Thank you for your comment.

As I said before, in order to prove that my estimate is wrong you need to provide a different one based on known facts. I have used known facts such as Prabahkaran’s demand of “One” member from each family, the actual numbers in the camps. The only assumption that I make is that of the average size of a Tamil family which I have taken as 4 and have also considered what a family size of 5 would do to the figures.

You have challenged me without using any numbers for your own estimates. That is not good enough as then the generalizations are not quantified and would be conjecture. Broad general statements do not constitute proof of anything. So you have debunked nothing.

There is an article on this web site quoting some newspaper reports….. “Nearly 20,000 escape from IDP centres was the headline of an English language broadsheet yesterday. The strap line read –“Most believed to be LTTE cadres”…..
If that were true then we have approximately 20,000 LTTE escapees from the IDP camps, 11,000 IDP’s identified as terrorist suspects in custody bringing up a total of 31,000 from within the camp itself. So where would your estimate of 23,000 be?

You say “….combined with the fact that the IDPs have not been able to mount a credible threat to the SLA,”

The IDP’s are in guarded camps as long as they remain there the Tigers amongst the sheep cant do anything militarily.

You ask “Please educate me how the Tamils in the civil service were “not harmless.” How many people (i.e. Sinhalese) did they kill?

You need to read and understand what is written before you start questioning. I did not write about “killing” I wrote about racial discrimination practiced by a section of Tamils who wielded Govt power, against the Sinhalese.
In any case “killing” is not the only way that people can harm others.

You say “….a single such attack in the five months since the LTTE’s annihilation.”

Here are three
May 21: 10 LTTE militants were killed in the Kadawana jungle area they had seven T-56 weapons, one M-16 weapon, eight hand grenades, one claymore mine of seven kilograms and a radio. Three senior militants, identified as Sathyan Master, Kanthan and Oviyan were among the dead

May 27: 11 LTTE killed in Kalavanchikudi. Five T-56 weapons, 20 claymore mines weighing about 15 kilograms each, two hand grenades, three anti-personnel mines and a stock of medical items

June 18: Three LTTE shot dead in Nelukulam. When they attacked the Vavuniya special Police unit when police attempted to search a vehicle.
Notice the armory? Any idea of the final destination of the bombs?

You say, “What is your evidence (assuming that the Tamils even dominated the civil service after 1956, which is quite questionable)?”

What I stated about Tamil dominance cannot be disputed as it is factual and could be verified by govt records if need be (pensions, W&OP, recruitment). This site is read by a large number of Sri Lankan’s unlike foreign web sites and the older generation would know the truth.

You have deftly sidestepped the period before 1956 why?

Do you have any knowledge of the Administrative Regulations pertaining to Govt servants? Are you aware that a Govt servant enjoys job security and cannot be dismissed arbitrarily? Are you aware that the retirement age of a Govt servant is 55 years? We became independent in 1948. A govt servant who joined the service at the age of 18 would have a secure employment for 37 years i.e. till 1985.

Even if we take a very conservative estimate of racial discrimination in recruitment, against the Sinhalese, of just 5 years after independence by the incumbent Tamil Departmental Heads, Tamil dominance will continue till the 1990 s.

You say … “My grandfather told me that when he was young, most of the other villagers believed that the entire population of India was Tamil (he grew up in Ratnapura and later became a translator in the tea plantations). However, the Buddha was somehow a Sinhala!”

Somehow you managed to drag religion into this….your grand father may have not known many Sinhalese neither would you have known any thing about Buddhism.

So the Sinhalese that your grand father new thought that the Buddha spoke Tamil instead of Pali? Or that the Tamils spoke Pali instead of Tamil? Imagine the Sinhala villager’s going to the village Temple and reciting in Pali all the time believing that India does not have any other race other than Tamils!

It seems to me that you are masquerading as a Sinhalese like “Mawatha Silva”

You say ….” Thank you for the clarification. Could you name **a** single LTTE leader who is still active in Sri Lanka? Would you include Daya Master and George, whom our justice system had released on bail?”

I am not privy to the thinking of the security services or to that of the LTTE. But obviously Daya Master and George has provided some valuable service to SL security services to be allowed bail. KP was caught wasn’t he?

BTW this is what I wrote …. “If I were a LTTE leader my first priority would be obtaining the release of those cadres within the camps. The singular disability the LTTE has at this moment of time.”

It’s not about names of LTTE surviving leaders its about strategy and was meant to show why people who did not lift a finger when Prabhakaran was chopping off legs, shooting and exposing them as a Human Shield suddenly feign concern regarding the very same people.

Since you ask here are some LTTE leaders; Adelle Balasingham (who might get extradited). Dr Murugesu Vineyagamoorthy and his wife Dr Pushpam who I believe are US convicts, Labour party Councillors Ms. Thaya Idaikaddar, Ms. Sashikala, and Ms Eliza Packiadevi (members of British Tamil Councillors and Associates), British Tamil Association officers, Tamil Youth Organisation officers, Officers of the TRO, Officers of the Tamil Housing Association UK, Officers of Federation of Associations of Canadian Tamils, There are some in Australia the names I cannot recollect at this time but I believe one was convicted by Australian Courts. Somebody is in charge of LTTE funds. There are many leaders but we know only those whose names caught the attention of the media.

You say … “In fact, the only post-war terrorist incident I am aware of was the recent school bus explosion instigated by a sergeant in the SLA. Does this suggest that there may be a greater threat from disgruntled members of the security forces than the Sri Lankan Tamil population?”

Do you mean the private van of a businessman that was booby trapped to kill him due to a personal issue involving the wife of the sergeant and the businessman? How did it become a school bus? Is it because the businessman drove his kid to school in it and gave a lift to two other children? By what stretch of imagination are you classifying a crime due to a personal vendetta as a terrorist act? It only shows your bankruptcy and dishonesty nothing else.

However, the danger of civil riots that would see disgruntled soldiers joining in if a premature release results in a resumption of terror attacks have been discussed by me in my previous posts on this thread

There is an excellent post in this thread by Vichara that is full of factual information.

Off the Cuff said,

October 20, 2009 @ 1:18 am

Dear SomewhatDisgusted,

Yes I agree that the methodology used is very basic. It was not meant to arrive at an accurate figure but to show the possibility of the existence of a large number of trained cadres. Until the numbers are put in, the stark reality gets glossed over.

People start thinking only when they see the numbers. I considered two average family sizes of 4 and 5. When 5 is used the family units become 50,000 using an IDP population of 250,000 (discounting about 12,000 living in school buildings, hospitals etc) and 60,000 if the often quoted inflated figure of 300,000 is used. Even if we increase the family size to 6 you will still get 41,666 using the actual population of 250,000 and 50,000 using the inflated population of 300,000.

The propagandists inflate the IDP population for affect but the corresponding increase in the trained cadres negates that.

Every family unit has at least two adults if it’s a young family and children who are themselves adults if the parents are old. There is no escaping the fact that Prabahkaran demanded a blood tax of one person from one family and took even children as young as 10 years. This is an established fact.

The higher the propagandists inflate the IDP figure the higher will be the trained cadre numbers and higher will be the hardcore.

Hence however much the LTTE apologists try to manipulate the numbers the result remains very high. When numbers are used it is very difficult to bluff.
This is why I have requested Mr Wijeyapala to quantify what he assumes. I have left out 12,000 which include the hospitalized sick (he seems to have overlooked this). He may find that reducing the numbers is not such an easy task as writing about it in general terms.

I do not think that the govt can catch all the hardcore cadres but most of them would be caught. It would minimize the future risk to the other inhabitants of SL.

I am against unjustifiable internment. I have made that very clear in my posts. No person should be deprived of his/her freedom arbitrarily but the govt has a dilemma. It has only two alternatives and both are horrible to say the least.

The East was resettled and infrastructure development has been massive. This is an indicator of what will happen in the North as well. I only hope that the govt will meet their self imposed deadline.

Off the Cuff said,

October 20, 2009 @ 1:26 am

Dear Vichara,

An excellent post.
Unbeatable for factual content
I really enjoyed reading it
Please continue to contribute.
Thank you

Off the Cuff

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 20, 2009 @ 5:42 am

Dear Off the cuff >>

About the IDP figures. Wijayapala’s argument is something like this. Let’s imagine that before the war started, there was a hypothetical population of 10,000 in the Vanni. By applying your calculation, we can surmise that there may have been about 2,500 trained cadres in such a population. However, in the ensuing war, many of those cadres would have perished, let’s say 2,000, leaving about 500 cadres remaining in a total population of 8000. Let’s assume all of them are now in IDP camps.

HIs point is, one cannot once again divide the remaining 8000 by 4 and say that there are 2000 cadres remaining. The actual figure is now 500, which is far less. So while your calculation is certainly indicative of the high number of potential cadres in the initial population, it no longer accurately reflects the number of cadres in the IDP population. The calculation would have to probably be modified to account for the total number of dead cadres, wounded etc.

Speaking about the wounded, I have also heard of various other tactics that have been used by the LTTE. For example, the injured LTTE cadres apparently used to hand themselves over to the Red Cross as civilians. The metamorphosis was after all, a simple process of donning a sarong although most often, they were never in battle fatigues in the first place. The Red Cross would then ship those cadres to state hospitals where they would, ironically, be treated as civilians. This I’ve heard is also a reason for inflated civilian casualty figures, because the Red Cross would count all these dead Sarong clad individuals as non-combatants. So the LTTE got the best of both worlds by both creating pressure on the govt. for killing civilians as well as getting their cadres treated at govt. hospitals. Fascinating isn’t it? This is not to say that all the injured people in hospitals are cadres but that too was an avenue for a fair few of them to escape.

Ultimately, it appears that the actual number of remaining cadres is a matter of some dispute. I think we would all benefit from as accurate an analysis as possible.

Heshan said,

October 20, 2009 @ 6:36 am

“The propagandists inflate the IDP population for affect but the corresponding increase in the trained cadres negates that.”

Propagandists don’t need to inflate the IDP population. As far as I know, GOSL does not allow any third-party to take a head-count of the IDP population… if GOSL allowed this, such information could easily be transcribed into a computer (electronic) database, available to the public, thereby making the figure a highly transparent one. Each time a “propagandist” tried to inflate the IDP number, GOSL would simply have to point to the database. If the relevant third parties were allowed free access to the IDP camps, then the database statistics could easily be correlated.

On the other hand, in the absence of such transparency, calling those who make estimates of the IDP population “propagandists”, is like the pot calling the kettle black.

Heshan said,

October 20, 2009 @ 6:40 am

“The IDP’s are in guarded camps as long as they remain there the Tigers amongst the sheep cant do anything militarily.”

So why was the entire Sinhala population of the South not put into guarded camps after the JVP rebellions? Could not the same logic be applied: “as long as they remain their the JVP among the sheep cant do anything militarily.”

Heshan said,

October 20, 2009 @ 7:46 am

*as long as they remain there

Heshan said,

October 20, 2009 @ 8:02 am

“Having said that, there is also a considerable amount of confusion regarding this matter, given the reports that 10,000 members have been identified so far and rumours of 20,000 people escaping (who were they then?).”

It is doubtful that the LTTE ever had more than 20,000 fighters at its disposal, after the defection of Karuna and the loss of the entire East. If we assume that 5,000 LTTE died during confrontations initiated by the Mahinda Rajapakse Government, and 10,000 more LTTE were taken into custody following the “final battle”, that leaves the possibility of 5,000 LTTE among the IDP’s.

As for those 5,000 LTTE, one has to ask what exactly their rank was… did they simply dig trenches for the LTTE, or did they function as scouts or were they hard-core suicide bombers.

In any case, one is finally left to ponder the question: do you hold 300,000 people hostage simply to extract 5,000… again, it is impossible to know (at least my knowledge is limited here) what % of those 5,000 pose any threat to the State. Further… the SL Army is more than 150,000 strong and four new HS zones have been constructed in former battle areas. So now the question becomes, what threat do the 5000 *potential* LTTE held in these camps pose to the 150,000 strong… could it not be argued, that the sheer scale of the SL armed forces combined with the military presence (an Army camp in every Northern Tamil area) combined with the total decimation of LTTE infrastructure and command-and-control structures is sufficient to prevent any new uprising from becoming an imminent threat, for at least another decade? Further, in those 10 years, a political, as opposed to a military solution could be used to prevent any future insurgency.

Conclusion: the IDP camps serve no real purpose.

Devanesan Nesiah said,

October 20, 2009 @ 2:16 pm

Dear Somewhatdisgusted/Off the Cuff/Wijayapala,

I presume that the primary objective is not to punish anyone but to avert acts of violence and to promote inter-ethnic amity and nation-building.

The arithmetic that I agreed with related to the numbers recruited, willingly or unwillingly, by the LTTE and not to ‘terror cadres’. I have not in the course of this year, met a single Tamil who yet believed that armed struggle will serve any positive purpose, or that cessation is achievable. It is possible that among those that have joined the LTTE willingly and are yet interned, a few yet believe in armed struggle and in the feasibility of achieving Eelam. Even among those who had been brain-washed by the LTTE, it is only in the oppressively unreal atmosphere of an internment camp that it is possible to yet sustain such deranged delusions.

It is, of course, likely that very large numbers of IDPs may be bitter about the treatment they have had at the hands of the LTTE or the armed services of the state or both. It is also likely that they may be bitter about what they had been enduring in the internment camps. If this is problem is not quickly and adequately addressed, a few among them may think of acts of revenge but not of a war of liberation, unless they are seriously mentally deranged. The remedy is not extended internment, which can only aggravate their condition and increase the likelihood of violence. but therapy by trained friendly professionals with expertise in counselling. Medical personnel who work in or have visited the camps seem to be unanimous on one point- the continuing psychological damage to IDPs is mounting day by day.

Almost everyone interned may be in need of resettlement and rehabilitation. Meeting this need would be a massive and challenging programme of RESETTLEMENT, REHABILITATION, RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT (RRRD) of which very little has been done, and that little was planned and executed without the participation of those most concerned- those awaiting return to their homes and their community leaders. These IDPs need to be assisted to rebuild their homes and workplaces, to regain their means of livelihood and to re-establish their citizenship that was taken away from them first by the LTTE and then by the State. They also need to be consulted about re-designing their neighbourhood, including schools, hospitals, administrative institutions, commercial establishments, places of worship, community and recreational centres, etc,.

Such participation could help to heal the psychological scars. As I mentioned earlier, their is a wealth of serving and recently retired officials as well as local community leaders acceptable to the IDPs whose skills can be made use of, but who have so far been excluded. If there is a good, transparent, participatory RRRD programme, at least a part of the enormous resources of the Tamil Diaspora can be tapped. What is urgently needed and yet lacking is mutual trust leading to consultation and participation. Such participation will help to eliminate the residue of LTTE ideology even though the Tamil Diaspora.

Off the Cuff’s paranoia is evident in the sweeping suspicion of Tamils, international NGOs and the West. The pressure to negotiate an end to the war was not to save LTTE leaders (the LTTE was already proscribed in many countries) but to save civilian lives that were needlessly lost. Navi Pillai may have a Tamil name, but does she identify herself as a Tamil or even speak that language?

I’m a Government pensioner, long retired and politically a nobody. Why are we viewed with suspicion?

Off the Cuff appears to suggest that the LTTE leaders among the Diaspora would benefit if the IDPs are free. On the contrary, if their objective is to further widen the Sinhala-Tamil divide and hinder national integration, that outcome would be best served by prolonged internment. This seems obvious to me but, perhaps, not to those suffering from paranoia. Finally, does Off the Cuff really want me to abandon my values and ideals and to revise my writing style?

Vichara said,

October 20, 2009 @ 9:13 pm

My thanks to Off the Cuff and SomewhatDisgusted for their appreciation of my contribution to this lively discussion. In support of the reply of Off the Cuff to Wijayapala, on October 20, 2009, I wish to present a few facts which would perhaps throw some light on the issue of the allegations and counter allegations on the discrimination/dominance of Tamils in the political and social fabric of the country. It can be examined in two stages, i.e. the pre independence and the post independence periods up to 1983. Post 1983 has been a period of aberration in ethnic relations in Sri Lanka.

An incontrovertible statement on the status of the Tamil community before independence comes from J.N. Dixit who was the controversial Indian High Commissioner during the Indian intervention in Sri Lanka, in his book Assignment Colombo (page 9).
“The origins of the prejudices and the antagonisms between the Sinhalese and the Tamils lie in a manner in the role the Tamils played during the British colonial period. ….They played on the apprehensions of the Tamil minority and used them as an instrument of their colonial regime. …. The result was that Tamils became disproportionately influential in the management of Sri Lankan political and economic affairs right to till the time of the country’s independence. Tamils also became economically dominant in the non-agricultural sectors of Sri Lankan society because of their association with the colonial rulers and their comparatively aggressive entrepreneurship. So the historical, ethnic and religious antagonism was compounded by the Sinhalese feeling of being discriminated against and unfairly treated by the British with the support of the Tamils.” .
It is accepted that every government after independence took specific affirmative action to alleviate this discrimination experienced by the majority community. It is noted that even with the affirmative actions taken by successive governments the percentage of posts held by the Tamil community exceeded their population ratio of 12.7 percent.
The following statistics are from a publication titled Inter- Racial & national Unity in Sri Lanka- of the Marga Institute in January 1985

Table 8- Tamil employment as State Personnel- 1972

Administrative, Professional and Technical Grades 28.5 %
Middle grades 15.3%
School Teachers 11.6%
Minor employees 10.6%
Labour grades 11.6%

Public Sector Employment of Tamils 1980

Professional, Technical & related work 12.11 %
Administrative & managerial workers 15.5 %
Clerical & related 13.2 %
Sales workers 14.2 %

Table 10- Tamil employment in Senior Administrative, Professional and Technical Grades 1982

Heads of Departments 16.25 %
Deputies 19.31 %
Assistants 15.57 %
All other senior grades 19.31 %

Table 9- Tamil employment as professionals – percentage

Attorney at law 27.97
Medical practitioners 38.58
Architects 21.61
Accountants & auditors 46.78
Engineers 34.05
University Staff up to
Library assistants 22.22
All professions 33.6

I am happy to note that in his note dated 20 October, DN has made a positive proposal on an RRRD program. But I cannot agree on his statement that Off the Cuff’s paranoia is evident in the sweeping suspicion of Tamils, international NGOs and the West. Is DN not aware of the proposal for a Trans-national Eelam?

DN also makes the statement “The pressure to negotiate an end to the war was not to save LTTE leaders (the LTTE was already proscribed in many countries) but to save civilian lives that were needlessly lost.” The noble objective would have been easily realized if there was pressure on the LTTE to release the civilian hostages. The present huge interest on the release of IDPs would have been better appreciated if similar interest was shown by DN and company on the plight of the Tamil civilians as hostages of the LTTE surviving on cunjee and living in bunkers.
Vichara

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 21, 2009 @ 2:18 pm

I’m in full agreement with Dr. Devanesan Nesiah’s last post on the task ahead and we need to be forward thinking in that regard. I agree that the commencement of and engagement in an RRRD program is a pressing need to to ensure the welfare (especially psychological welfare) of the IDPs. I agree however, that the prevailing climate of suspicion, understandable or not, is hardly conducive to such positive action. What can be done to reduce this suspicion is certainly a matter for discussion.

You said: “What is urgently needed and yet lacking is mutual trust leading to consultation and participation. Such participation will help to eliminate the residue of LTTE ideology even though the Tamil Diaspora.”

The problem is, IMO, the continuous lobbying by the diaspora to have sanctions imposed, trade benefits reduced etc. serve to increase the govts’ distrust (a recent article from that LTTE activist, Suren Surendiran comes to mind. Sadly enough, the only people who will suffer from such sanctions are ordinary Sri Lankans, not these politicians). However, the govts. refusal to allow diaspora involvement in turn fuels diaspora distrust, making them lobby for sanctions, creating yet another vicious cycle. I believe both parties must be influenced if we are to break such cycles.

On a more positive note, the govt. claims it will resettle 80% of IDPs by the end of the year and the rest by the end of January. We shall have to wait and see whether they hold good on that promise.

wijayapala said,

October 22, 2009 @ 9:46 am

Off the cuff,

As I said before, in order to prove that my estimate is wrong you need to provide a different one based on known facts.

And as I said before, I don’t need to provide my own estimate to debunk yours. Given the gaping holes in your estimate, “I don’t know” would be a far more accurate and honest answer to the question of the LTTE’s numbers.

I have used known facts such as Prabahkaran’s demand of “One” member from each family, the actual numbers in the camps. The only assumption that I make is that of the average size of a Tamil family which I have taken as 4 and have also considered what a family size of 5 would do to the figures.

Unfortunately you make quite a bit more assumptions than that. Your first assumption is that the LTTE had actually recruited 1 out of 4 or 5 Tamils in the Wanni- and that is NOT a fact. The LTTE normally did not recruit adults as full cadre after the IPKF experience where they suffered mass desertion of the 1980s recruits who had been mostly young adult males. The LTTE targeted teenagers from 1990 onward because they were young enough to be brainwashed but old enough to hold a gun. If you had a 4-person family with a mother, father, 5-year old and 3-year old, the LTTE would not be able to recruit any of them as indoctrinated cadre. If you put this family next to another which did have a teenage child taken by the LTTE, then your flimsy ratio is already cut down to 1 in 8 Tamils.

And that’s only the beginning!

Parents in LTTE-controlled areas also embarked on extreme measures to prevent their children from being taken, such as marrying off the children at relatively young ages. This eventually forced the LTTE to relax its policy against recruiting married people. My point is that the parents did not sit idly by and allow their children to become cannon fodder, as you’re blithely assuming.

You have challenged me without using any numbers for your own estimates.

Since you clearly didn’t read what I had written above, allow me to repeat:

…I treat 23,000 as the absolute maximum. The SLA for its part claimed that it killed 22,000 cadre. If we assume that the LTTE managed to recruit half this number in the final year and a half of the war, then we wind up with roughly the same figure of Tigers who are currently in SLA custody.

In case you still didn’t understand, here’s the math:

23,000 – 22,000 + 23,000/2 = 12,500 cadre surviving

Minus 10,000 cadre in SLA custody = 2,500 cadre who deserted, fled SL, or are hiding somewhere.

I would be the first to admit that this number is flawed because it relies on 1) SLA figures for casualties and 2) the assumption that the LTTE recruited half of its Jan 08 total, when recruitment could have been much higher or lower. But my basic assertion that the LTTE can have no more than 23,000 cadre (including civilian militia, who are worthless as guerillas) remains undisputed. As SomewhatDisgusted observed, your number does not even take battle casualties into account.

Here is another point you have not addressed- why would these surviving cadre have stopped fighting and hide (either among the IDPs or the jungles) while their Supreme Leader got his head blown off??? If the LTTE had really planned a long-term struggle to continue after the SLA victory, as you’re suggesting, why did Prabakaran remain in the Wanni?

There is an article on this web site quoting some newspaper reports….. “Nearly 20,000 escape from IDP centres was the headline of an English language broadsheet yesterday. The strap line read –“Most believed to be LTTE cadres”…..

Yes, I read that in the Island. Forgive me if I don’t take “police investigations” at face value- there’s a reason why the SLA, not the police are guarding the camps (otherwise it would’ve been 100,000 who would’ve escaped). I won’t dispute that 20,000 IDPs may have escaped, but how did the police conclude that they were mostly LTTE?

So where would your estimate of 23,000 be?

That’s the SLA’s estimate, not mine!

The IDP’s are in guarded camps as long as they remain there the Tigers amongst the sheep cant do anything militarily.

Why would the Tigers have allowed themselves to become helpless sheep?

You need to read and understand what is written before you start questioning. I did not write about “killing” I wrote about racial discrimination practiced by a section of Tamils who wielded Govt power, against the Sinhalese.
In any case “killing” is not the only way that people can harm others.

But killing is the most extreme method of harming others (unless you don’t believe in the 1st Precept). There were two major anti-Tamil riots which took place long before the appearance of the first militant groups in the 1970s and resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Tamils. The Tamils did not respond in kind (with a limited exception in the East in 1958). What did the Tamils do to merit such violence? And if they weren’t a harmless people, why did they wait until after 1983 to launch a war?

You say “….a single such attack in the five months since the LTTE’s annihilation.”
“Here are three

None of the three examples were actual attacks. All of them were instances of LTTE fugitives on the run getting their asses kicked. The examples you provided paint a picture of a virtually annihilated organization having only a nuisance value.

What I stated about Tamil dominance cannot be disputed as it is factual and could be verified by govt records if need be (pensions, W&OP, recruitment). This site is read by a large number of Sri Lankan’s unlike foreign web sites and the older generation would know the truth.

If it is factual, then why can’t you cite these records? We don’t need testimony from old-timers to tell us.

It is true that the Tamils were disproportionately represented in university admissions and public employment, although this ratio began to drop after 1956. But mere statistics does not comprise *evidence* of a Tamil conspiracy to keep the Sinhalese down.

Since you like my family stories, here’s another one. My father graduated from Peradeniya medical school one year before standardization, and he was (and is) a strong supporter of standardization (but for socioeconomic, not communal reasons). However, he told me many stories how he was helped by his Tamil professors (and conversely how Sinhala faculty treated him like garbage because of his rural background). He also observed that Sinhalese and Tamils had different approaches when applying to medical school. The Sinhalese would generally give up and choose another field if they didn’t get admitted, whereas the Tamils would try year after year if they didn’t make it (my father himself was rejected on his first try). I would argue that there are many other things than wild conspiracies to explain the discrepancies.

You have deftly sidestepped the period before 1956 why?

Do you have anything you can deftly show to prove a Tamil conspiracy before 1956?

The Government Clerical Servants Union (GCSU) was one of the earliest associates of the LSSP. Because the Tamils were dominant in the civil service in the 1930s and 1940s, they likewise dominated the GCSU. After independence, a Tamil organizer of the GCSU named Kandasamy was shot dead by the police while participating in a procession with NM Perera protesting the UNP’s increase of the rice prices. Is this the Tamil conspiracy?

Do you have any knowledge of the Administrative Regulations pertaining to Govt servants? Are you aware that a Govt servant enjoys job security and cannot be dismissed arbitrarily?

After 1956 you didn’t have job security if you didn’t know Sinhala, as demonstrated by the dismissal of Pathmanathan, Kulamani, and Surendranathan in the late 1960s.

Somehow you managed to drag religion into this….your grand father may have not known many Sinhalese neither would you have known any thing about Buddhism.

The point was not to drag religion (my own religion of all) but to give an example of ignorance among Sinhala people. Of course nobody today is this ignorant, but our own grandchildren may laugh about the ignorance of our generation.

So the Sinhalese that your grand father new thought that the Buddha spoke Tamil instead of Pali?”

No. As I had mentioned, the villagers thought that Buddha was a Sinhala.

Imagine the Sinhala villager’s going to the village Temple and reciting in Pali all the time believing that India does not have any other race other than Tamils!

What’s hard to imagine is not simply the staggering ignorance but worse the lack of logic. However, in a similar way I have to point out that your estimate of Tigers among the IDPs also lacks logic (ie. no LTTE casualties), for the reasons I gave above.

It seems to me that you are masquerading as a Sinhalese like “Mawatha Silva”

I’m not, and I would request that you keep your arguments dispassionate. Please don’t avoid substance by accusing me of being Tamil.

There are many leaders but we know only those whose names caught the attention of the media.

I asked for an LTTE leader **still in Sri Lanka**, not the diaspora clowns you listed.

Was this your idea of a joke?? I don’t recall Mr Idaikkar wearing cyanide whenever I read his posturings in Tamilnet. And I don’t see “Officers of Federation of Associations of Canadian Tamils” leading a new rebellion in Sri Lanka.

Why were these diaspora LTTE supporters eating Big Macs in London while their boys were getting smashed to pieces in the Wanni? In other words, why didn’t any of them directly join the fight? Do you know the difference between diaspora and Sri Lankan Tamils, more or less whether there is such a difference?

Do you mean the private van of a businessman that was booby trapped to kill him due to a personal issue involving the wife of the sergeant and the businessman? How did it become a school bus? Is it because the businessman drove his kid to school in it and gave a lift to two other children?

My apologies; it was a school van, not a bus, according to Sunday Times and Walter Jayawardhana. It was not a personal vehicle, though. They also mentioned that seven other children had been injured aside from the killed 12-year old.

By what stretch of imagination are you classifying a crime due to a personal vendetta as a terrorist act? It only shows your bankruptcy and dishonesty nothing else.

Simple- everybody initially assumed that it was the LTTE. The intent of the attack was far overshadowed by the target and the means. The sergeant clearly had no compunction about placing an explosive in a vehicle that children rode in- I would not classify this incident as a mere “crime.”

The point I would make is that Sinhala “criminals” these days appear to be more dangerous than Tamil “terrorists.” Semantics are irrelevant.

The next time you attempt to challenge my facts, please get your information straight and kindly refrain from emotional hysterics in your response before accusing me of dishonesty. Thank you.

wijayapala said,

October 22, 2009 @ 9:57 am

SomewhatDisgusted,

So while your calculation is certainly indicative of the high number of potential cadres in the initial population, it no longer accurately reflects the number of cadres in the IDP population. The calculation would have to probably be modified to account for the total number of dead cadres, wounded etc.

You seem to understand my primary argument regarding OTC’s failure to account for battle casualties, but I’d stress that this was only *one* point among others. The “high number of potential cadres in the initial population” is also highly flawed as it is entirely based on the assumption that the LTTE actually recruited one person from every home. And then there’s the lack of logic from a military angle- why such a large number of Tigers couldn’t have put up more of a fight during the last battle and afterwards. I feel safer starting from the SLA’s own estimate and working down.

I should add, I too believe that people who have had continuous exposure to terrorist ideologies must undergo some sort of rehabilitation process.

They don’t need a rehabilitation process. They only need to meet ordinary Sinhalese to see that the years of LTTE propaganda were all lies.

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 22, 2009 @ 7:18 pm

Wijayapala,

Yes, I was aware of that shortcoming from the very beginning, which is why I said it was “indicative” of the “potential” number of cadres. By no means did I mistake that for an actual figure. When “Off-the-cuff” initially mentioned those numbers, perhaps it was on another thread, she explained it as a figure indicative of the extensive effect the LTTE had on the civilian population, and how many of those people may have undergone weapons training and/or brainwashing.

This is why I believe in the need for a comprehensive rehabilitation process. 30 years of knowing nothing but to be terrified of the “bombing, raping, pillaging Sinhalese” is not a good way to grow up, if I might put it mildly. So while I agree with you that meeting ordinary Sinhalese people could change their minds, that won’t happen automatically will it? It should be a part of a rehabilitation process. Perhaps bringing the children by the bus load to southern areas and letting them mingle with the rest of the population could let them see that there’s more they can aspire to in life than living (dying?) to fulfill the dreams of those who have no qualms about sacrificing the innocent to achieve their own narrow ends.

Heshan said,

October 22, 2009 @ 11:25 pm

“They don’t need a rehabilitation process. They only need to meet ordinary Sinhalese to see that the years of LTTE propaganda were all lies.”

Other than its own cadres, I don’t think the LTTE indoctrinated civilians in its own territory. I have been reading LTTE websites for more than a decade now; I have never come across any kind of propaganda that specifically ridiculed the Sinhalese people. The propaganda – if it can even be called propaganda – that these sites put forth concerns the right to self-determination of a particular group of people. This right to self-determination is also justified by the failure of the British to accommodate minority aspirations at the time of Independence, and the ensuing totalitarian state that flourished under the auspices of a majoritarian system.

In retrospect, perhaps the issue is that democracy has never taken root in Sri Lanka, period. The early years were spent pursuing language acts, colonization schemes, disenfranchising tea-estate Tamils, etc. The later years were spent overcoming the inevitable repercussions of such policy, exemplified in civil war. Today the focus seems to be not on relenting, or pursuing alternative paths, but on consolidating ill-gotten gains. In this regard, LTTE “propaganda” was correct. The State may have changed its language a bit, but its baser motivations are one and the same. One need not be “indoctrinated” to realize; it suffices to examine an IDP camp, wherein the ancient Dravidian enemy of Dutugemunu has been captured and reduced to nothing by the victorious “sons of the soil” – an Anagirika Dharmapala dream come true. I can imagine the entire rural South breathing a sigh of relief, for if they were not doing so, then such camps would not exist in the first place.

wijayapala said,

October 23, 2009 @ 8:05 am

SomewhatDisgusted,

This is why I believe in the need for a comprehensive rehabilitation process. 30 years of knowing nothing but to be terrified of the “bombing, raping, pillaging Sinhalese” is not a good way to grow up, if I might put it mildly. So while I agree with you that meeting ordinary Sinhalese people could change their minds, that won’t happen automatically will it?

You would be amazed how straightforward it is to de-program someone. You don’t need a lot of fancy stuff or Western experts but the right environment. Jeeva Jothi is a girls’ home in Batticaloa that is run by the older girls. Most or all of them were LTTE child soldiers and they’ve made the transition towards becoming normal human beings. There’s a foolish belief that if children get “damaged” at a young age (like getting sucked into the LTTE), then they’re “damaged” for life. The truth is that most humans are resilient beings and have the ability to overcome unnatural events in their lives.

The key about LTTE propaganda is that it was mostly lies. From my experience, people in Sri Lanka (whether Sinhala or Tamil) tend to recover better from lies than expatriates, who have a greater tendency to believe whatever they hear without questioning.

wijayapala said,

October 23, 2009 @ 8:30 am

Dr. Nesiah,

I have not in the course of this year, met a single Tamil who yet believed that armed struggle will serve any positive purpose, or that cessation is achievable. It is possible that among those that have joined the LTTE willingly and are yet interned, a few yet believe in armed struggle and in the feasibility of achieving Eelam. Even among those who had been brain-washed by the LTTE, it is only in the oppressively unreal atmosphere of an internment camp that it is possible to yet sustain such deranged delusions.

From my own experiences in Sri Lanka I entirely agree. The only Tamils who believe in armed struggle live outside the island and have no intention to actually fight for Eelam. They expect somebody else- preferably the child of somebody poorer and lower-caste than them- to win Eelam and then hand it over to them.

I especially agree with what you say about the camps. If the Tamils in those camps feel that they are being persecuted for simply being Tamil (and the off the cuff types are unlikely to attempt to change this view), then Tamil nationalism will never die. If the people feel they have lost so much that there’s nothing else to lose, then we’re in a dangerous situation.

I’m a Government pensioner, long retired and politically a nobody. Why are we viewed with suspicion?

If you live abroad, I can tell you that the Sinhalese generally understand that the LTTE would’ve gotten nowhere without Tamil diaspora finance. I personally know that not every diaspora Tamil was an LTTE supporter, but nevertheless there is a Sinhala (and even Tamil) bitterness towards the diaspora for its overall role in propping up the LTTE.

What makes things worse is that most Sinhalese don’t have the ability to distinguish an LTTE supporter from someone who isn’t. I have to say, many opportunists among the Tamils who talk peace in English but war in their own language have not helped this situation. It is frustrating to see Tamils who even opposed the LTTE get labeled as “Tiger” because they say something inconvenient to Sinhalese, but it is equally frustrating when certain Tamils like K. Sivathamby complain about being tagged as LTTE while praising Tamileelam in their vernacular writings.

wijayapala said,

October 23, 2009 @ 8:47 am

Heshan,

I have been reading LTTE websites for more than a decade now; I have never come across any kind of propaganda that specifically ridiculed the Sinhalese people.

I have read LTTE websites also. They refer to the ***enemy*** as “Sinhala nation” or “Sinhala government.” They don’t explicitly label the Sinhala people as the enemy but the intent is quite clear. LTTE propaganda- yes it is propaganda- justifies brainwashing children, murdering Tamil “traitors,” and dragging the entire “Tamil nation” down a losing war on the basis that the Sinhalese are an evil, genocidal race intent on destroying the Tamils.

In retrospect, perhaps the issue is that democracy has never taken root in Sri Lanka, period.

If you mean that it hasn’t upheld minority rights, then I would agree. However, there is no democracy without majority rule.

One need not be “indoctrinated” to realize; it suffices to examine an IDP camp, wherein the ancient Dravidian enemy of Dutugemunu has been captured and reduced to nothing by the victorious “sons of the soil” – an Anagirika Dharmapala dream come true.

Don’t forget that the reason why the IDPs have gotten into this miserable situation is the LTTE’s use of them as human shields and cannon fodder while running away from the SLA. It was the LTTE who disenfranchised the northern Tamils and allowed Mahinda to win the presidential election. It was the LTTE which made the CFA into a joke right up through the Mavil Aru incident which restarted the war. It was the LTTE that blew Rajiv Gandhi to smithereens and ensured that India would never intervene in SL again. It was the LTTE that attacked SLMM monitors at sea and brought about the EU ban. Throughout this entire period, all the LTTE bootlickers were boasting about “Iruthi por” without giving a damn how it would affect the Tamil civilians in LTTE territory.

So please don’t blame King Dutugemunu, Anagarika Dharmapala, or the “sons of the soil” in the SLA for this mess.

Vichara said,

October 23, 2009 @ 9:51 pm

We appear to be embroiled in a long discourse, based on different assumptions, on the number of LTTE cadres remaining in the IDP centers.
Following is the assumption made by Wijayapala..
…I treat 23,000 as the absolute maximum. The SLA for its part claimed that it killed 22,000 cadre. If we assume that the LTTE managed to recruit half this number in the final year and a half of the war, then we wind up with roughly the same figure of Tigers who are currently in SLA custody.
His assumption is not based on any reliable evidence. Here is a different assumption on new recruits, made by the University Teachers for Human Rights (Jaffna), in their Special Report No. 31 Released on 28th October 2008.
“By October 2008, the LTTE had once again become very aggressive in conscription. They visited families with lists provided by Village Headmen (GS officers). For a family with 3 or 4 children, they demanded two fighters; one for a family with two; and none for a family with one……….. Since early September, sources from the Vanni say that the LTTE has conscripted 9000 ‘very young’ persons who are now under training.”

This means that within a period of two months the LTTE recruited 9000 in the category of only young persons. This is against an 11,000 of all categories claimed by Wijayapala. I have my doubts whether it is very important to pursue this debate on the remaining number of LTTE cadres. One has also to keep in mind the way one defines an LTTE cadre. According to Colonel R. Hariharan (expert on terrorism in South Asia) civilians are part of the LTTE concept of war. All mahaveer families who enjoyed special privileges were ideological supporters of the LTTE. The fact that the LTTE lost about 27,000 cadres in the Eelam wars gives an idea of the large number of mahaveer families who would be strong LTTE activists.
The fact that screening for LTTE cadres is not a never ending process is demonstrated in the recent relocation of 41,000 IDPs in their former areas of habitation.

Both DN and Somewhatdisgusted have stressed on the need for reconciliation. DN has rightly pointed out that “What is urgently needed and yet lacking is mutual trust leading to consultation and participation”
But mutual trust cannot be established unless we are prepared to abandon the myths that both communities have held on with tenacity, and are prepared to accept the historical mistakes made by the political leaders of both side. We cannot build trust while at the same time distorting facts of history. In my post of 19th October I touched upon a few distortions that had crept into the note by DN. I would have been happy if he considered appropriate to point out any errors on my part.
The majority community is not concerned on the tales of successive invasions and plundering of their ancient civilization by marauding tribes from South India. They are not even worried about the pre independence attempts by the Tamil leaders to, (as Soulbury Commission described) make the majority a minority. But they are concerned when all the blame for the ills of Sri Lanka is placed only on the Sinhalese community.
Do we have the sincerity and the courage to accept that both the Sinhalese and Tamil leaders have blundered and close that sorry chapter and start on a new chapter?

Off the Cuff said,

October 24, 2009 @ 1:17 am

Dear Dr Devanasan Nesiah,

I totally agree that the objective should be bridge building (racial harmony), nation building and avoidance of further acts of violence aimed at the general public. It should not be about punishment but about rehabilitation.

This thread and similar discussions on GV will not bring any pressure to bear on the SL Govt but it can be used very effectively in bridge building and creating an understanding between communities.

The first step in doing that is to avoid language that can be misconstrued and my previous posts make that very clear. Even the heading used in the current article can generate anger in both communities; one will feel anger believing it had been wronged while the other feels anger believing they have been unjustly accused of being racist.

The second requirement is to acknowledge the faults of each other with honesty. Denial of the causes that led to this problem would only serve to harden the positions of each party. That the Tamils were an instrument the British used to rule over the majority before independence is a fact. That they tried to perpetuate their control after independence is also a fact. That some govt depts had an overwhelming majority of Tamils in them is a fact. The older generation and students of history would know this to be true. Perusal of Pensions Records, Recruitment Records and Personnel Files if available should confirm these facts. Most probably some of these and other similar records would be available in govt archives or dept archives. Anybody demanding proof of such things which are common knowledge is neither honest nor interested in bridge building and nation building.

What is important to understand is, that both the Sinhalese and the Tamils are basically non violent and compassionate (remember I objected to your question “Do ethnic differences suppress our generosity when the disaster is caused by ethnicity-related political oppression or violence?”) but within each community there are people who are more easily aroused and would act without restraint given the right stimulus. Cunning power hungry individuals used them to achieve their own narrow designs by goading them to violence. Every race related violence in SL was so caused. Guilt lies with community leaders of both communities that allowed such a state to develop.

The third requirement is to ensure that demands remain equitable. One community cannot expect to be able to live and carry out business anywhere in the Island while excluding other communities from areas they claim for themselves. There cannot be exclusive ethnic enclaves anywhere in SL (traditional homelands). Any laws that allow such discrimination should be repealed (Thesawalami). One community cannot demand more public resources for themselves while denying others of an equal share.

Regarding rehabilitation “Strategy Page” a defense website like Jane’s has this to say
“There are already 3,000 former LTTE members in training programs, to provide them with job skills”. The govt has declared that those who are not guilty of grave crime would be rehabilitated and reintroduced to society. In fact some former cadres were found foreign employment and sent abroad.

Continuing it says “LTTE members living outside Sri Lanka have reorganized themselves as victims, and used that to persuade host country officials to pressure Sri Lanka to ease up on efforts to find LTTE members still in Sri Lanka. This effort centers around getting all 250,000 Tamils in the north, immediately freed from the camps they were placed in after the LTTE combat forces were crushed there earlier this year. The LTTE is continuing to use NGOs to pressure the government to immediately shut down the detention camps, and let the LTTE terrorists go free. The government considers this insane and irresponsible, but some diplomats and officials from the U.S. and Britain have taken up the call to halt the screening for terrorists, and just let everyone go”

It furthers states that, “The LTTE is determined to make a comeback, and eventually partition Sri Lanka, and many Tamils will support this effort any way they can”.

Estimating the LTTE hiding amongst the IDP’s it states as follows
“The government plans to use tribunals to examine as many as 15,000 LTTE members, to identify and imprison the killers, rehabilitate the potential killers and release those who did not commit serious crimes”.

This is what I stated in an earlier post,
“Not all of them joined the LTTE willingly but it is not unreasonable to expect that at least 25% or 15,617 of them to have been willing fighters indoctrinated with a terrorist ideology. This is the minimum number of hardcore cadres hiding among the civilians”
The numbers that I came up with agrees closely with “Strategy Page”

Identifying some more threats, Strategy Page asserts
“The hard core LTTE not only have to escape the camps, but also the country. LTTE activists are trying to get India to grant citizenship to LTTE members who escape from Sri Lanka. There’s a lot of opposition to this in India, but the proposal has growing support. Foreign governments are alert to efforts to smuggle LTTE terrorists into their countries, where sanctuary, of a sort, is available among Tamil migrants. There are hard line LTTE factions active in most major expatriate Tamil communities in Europe and North America. These groups use coercion and force to extract donations and other support for the LTTE. The host governments fear that LTTE terrorist cells will be set up, and be used for attacks on local targets”.

Facts about the LTTE Air wing is revealed thus
“Pathmanathan was long in charge of weapons buying and smuggling, and has apparently been cooperative. For example, it was recently revealed that the LTTE had bought twelve more single engine aircraft, and ten were dismantled and ready for shipment from an airfield in Eritrea. The LTTE had sent at least a dozen men to flight training schools in Malaysia and Indonesia. Only two of these pilots have been caught, and the other ten are believed among the 250,000 refugees”.

Note that two LTTE pilots have been caught while 10 more are believed to be hiding amongst the IDP’s

The arrest of a Tamil gun runner in Singapore is attributed to KP’s info. He is supposed to have provided detailed information on several other key gunrunning operatives.

Most of the foregoing is in answer to your charge of “Paranoia”. I hope you realize how real the threat posed to the 20,000,000 other inhabitants of SL is. This is not about winning arguments but of looking boldly at the facts.

Your statement ……“Off the Cuff’s paranoia is evident in the sweeping suspicion of Tamils….” Is again an attempt at sweeping aside valid arguments placed before you by dismissing them as those of a paranoid. I welcome fair comment but you are now resorting to unfair methods. By what stretch of imagination can you make such a charge? “Sweeping suspicion of Tamils” should include “ALL Tamils” whereas my suspicions are quite clearly stated as about those who are hiding amongst the IDP’s. It does not even encompass all the IDP’s let alone ALL Tamils. I did not state that you suspect ALL Sinhalese did I?

My reference to Ms. Navi Pillai was made in the following paragraph
“The first and the most powerful tool that I would use would be HR issues of the IDP’s. I would use all the resources at my command, International contacts, groups such as HRW, People like you who are leaders of the Tamil community, UNHRC Navi Pillai (who would have an empathy to Tamils), Public demonstrations etc…..”

This is in context of a hypothetical strategy that I would use if I were an LTTE leader. What is stated above is quite different to what you attempt to convey.

Ms Navi Pillai has a Tamil heritage and hence would have “Empathy” with a fellow Tamil. It’s immaterial what language she talks and honestly I do not know any of her personal details. But I know that she told one thing to the SL Govt and did something else. I know she avoided attending the UNHRC special session and delivered a pre recorded video message instead. Wasn’t attending her own UN council sessions in person not a priority? Her actions speak volumes for her affinity.

Then about the NGO’s. Are you not aware of the type of development carried out by these NGO’s inside LTTE held territory? There were name boards announcing grand schemes but nothing else on the ground. Where did the money go? Construction material taken in by some NGO’s ostensibly for development ended up building luxury underground air conditioned bunkers and bungalows complete with swimming pools. Heavy earth moving equipment allowed in by the Govt for Tsunami construction work ended up building Earth Barriers to keep the IDP’s in and the SL forces out. However there is no evidence of sweeping distrust of NGO’s as 31 of them are allowed into the IDP camps as stated by Mr Raji whom I quoted earlier and is a Tamil himself.

Regarding your last para the extracts I have given here from “Strategy Page” is sufficient answer to the charges made.

I have only appealed to your sense of fairness to write with decorum because I believe that you are an honest man under the influence of an understandable emotion. However, it’s up to you, whether you continue to write on the borderline of inflammatory Tamil Nationalism or not.

There are two excellent posts on this thread, from “Vichara” that addresses wider concerns than what I have discussed in all my posts, containing a wealth of factual information in them. Some of the questions you raised about my posts have been answered by him. I subscribe to his views and I hope you would include the matters raised by him in your future posts.

BTW the papers reported today of the release of 41,685 people from the camps belonging to 12,095 families (average IDP family size of 3.45 persons) and states a total of 66,685 have been released so far. The remainder is said to be 207,780 (Daily Mirror).

Off the Cuff said,

October 24, 2009 @ 1:37 am

Dear Vichara,

Once again a probing post which is highly appreciated.

Unfortunately I missed yours before posting mine

Heshan said,

October 24, 2009 @ 6:15 am

“They don’t explicitly label the Sinhala people as the enemy but the intent is quite clear. LTTE propaganda- yes it is propaganda- justifies brainwashing children, murdering Tamil “traitors,” and dragging the entire “Tamil nation” down a losing war on the basis that the Sinhalese are an evil, genocidal race intent on destroying the Tamils.”

What a gross exaggeration. The only thing these websites do besides discuss various aspects of Tamil culture and history, is describe state-sponsored violence against Tamils. Nowhere does it say on these websites that Sinhalese are an evil, genocidal race. You are free to provide a counter-example via tamilnet.com or tamilnation.org but I doubt you’ll take up the challenge (since its a moot point).

“If you mean that it hasn’t upheld minority rights, then I would agree. However, there is no democracy without majority rule.”

The modern democracy is focused on accomodating the needs of the minorities, not the majority.

“Don’t forget that the reason why the IDPs have gotten into this miserable situation is the LTTE’s use of them as human shields and cannon fodder while running away from the SLA.”

Are you suggesting the 20,000 unarmed civilians massacred during the “Final Battle” were used as human shields and cannon fodder? As for the real reason why the Tamils got into this situation, that is a very complex question. However, suffice it to say that had India not provided weapons, satellite intelligence, manpower, diplomatic immunity… had China not done the same… no one would have been “running” from the SLA. Let us also not forget that the SLA broke every tenet of the Geneva Conventions – from bombing hospitals to raping nude corpses of dead female LTTE cadres to shooting dead those who surrendered to bombing the so-called no-fire zone. Of course, when you fight like a filthy wild beast, when you disregard every norm and semblance of decency, such as the SLA did, when you disregard international opinion, and when you are backed by lakhs of rupees courtesy of a veangeful Sonia Gandhi, you are bound to get results.

“It was the LTTE who disenfranchised the northern Tamils and allowed Mahinda to win the presidential election.”

It takes two to tango. We know what opinion the South had of Ranil… perhaps the only Sinhalese leader in history with a genuine committment towards peace. We know where his proposals for power-sharing would have ended up. We know that the CFA would have been ended up in the dustbin regardless of whether Ranil won the election, not merely because of the LTTE, but because the SINHALESE SOUTH has had ZERO interest in devolving power to the minorities. Sixty years of zero constitutional amendments to safeguard the rights of Tamils makes it a foregone conclusion what would have happened to Ranil… probably his bloody banyon would have ended up in the glass display case in the Colombo history museum, next to S.W.R.D’s.

“So please don’t blame King Dutugemunu, Anagarika Dharmapala, or the “sons of the soil” in the SLA for this mess.”

Dharmapala would be proud… not only are the British gone, but the monks sit in Parliament now.

wijayapala said,

October 24, 2009 @ 7:00 am

Vichara,

I have my doubts whether it is very important to pursue this debate on the remaining number of LTTE cadres.

Off the Cuff might disagree with you since his entire argument rests on the remaining LTTE threat.

However, I think I agree with you. It makes no difference whether there are 60,000 Tigers or zero, because if there are 60,000 of them, they’re acting like they’re zero!

All mahaveer families who enjoyed special privileges were ideological supporters of the LTTE.

Although it is generally true that maaveerar families received special privileges from the LTTE, it does not necessarily follow that they are ideological supporters if their children had been forcibly taken. Actually a number of the maaveerar parents hated the LTTE. There was a famous example where the mother of Paramadeva, the first LTTE Batticaloa commander killed in 1985, angrily tore down the LTTE flag and trampled it, as the LTTE had killed her younger son Vasudeva.

What do you propose that we do with these maaveerar families, especially if they did not break any laws?

But they are concerned when all the blame for the ills of Sri Lanka is placed only on the Sinhalese community.

A valid concern. Where did Nesiah blame everything on the Sinhalese?

It is noted that even with the affirmative actions taken by successive governments the percentage of posts held by the Tamil community exceeded their population ratio of 12.7 percent.

Question- does “Tamil employment” in Marga’s statistics include the up-country Tamils (I presume that it does not include the Tamil-speaking Muslims)? If so, then the population ratio should be over 18 percent, not 12.7.

On the topic of statistics, take a look at this article Language Barrier.

Percentage of Tamil-speaking state employees (including Muslims) in 2006 was 8.4 percent. What are your views on that?

Off the Cuff said,

October 24, 2009 @ 10:30 am

Dear SomewhatDisgusted,

Your post of 20 Oct at 5.42 am refers
( http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/17/the-internment-%E2%80%93-a-collective-punishment/#comment-10059 )

Quote
“About the IDP figures. Wijayapala’s argument is something like this. Let’s imagine that before the war started, there was a hypothetical population of 10,000 in the Vanni. By applying your calculation, we can surmise that there may have been about 2,500 trained cadres in such a population. However, in the ensuing war, many of those cadres would have perished, let’s say 2,000, leaving about 500 cadres remaining in a total population of 8000. Let’s assume all of them are now in IDP camps.”
Unquote

Agreed.

Now let’s see where that leads us.

Original Population 10,000
Cadre strength 2,500
Remaining population 8000
Cadres within this population 500
Percentage cadre strength in population 6.25%
Applying your methodology
Cadres in the population considered by Dr Nesiah 280,000 x 6.25% = 17,500
Cadre strength if you use the lower population considered by me 15,625

This is almost an exact match to my original estimate of 15,617
It also matches what Strategy Page gives as the number of cadres left within the IDP’s and now it matches your calculations based on wijeypala’s assumptions.

The higher figure of 62,500 shows the potential going by the average family size of 4 and the all powerful LTTE diktats that “no one” could circumvent while living under the LTTE. I have left out the war wounded that are hospitalized. I have also made allowance to possible errors by leaving out 30,000 (including war wounded) that Dr Nesiah claims as IDP’s. The actual family size would have been 3.45 going by the 41,685 that belonged to 12,095 families released recently hence even 4 seems to be an overestimate.

My argument is that it is imperative to catch as much of the 15000 – 16000 cadres that blended into the civil IDP population for the following reasons

1. Primarily, the safety of the 20,000,000 population living in SL irrespective of ethnicity
2. Prevent a groundswell of civilian and armed forces indignation and anger if cornered cadres are released prematurely along with IDP’s and attacks on soft targets resume
3. Prevent possible civil riots in the event of such an attack taking place.
4. Prevent a mutiny originating within the lower ranks of the armed forces that have sacrificed 26,000 lives and probably double that number permanently disabled fighting a war to stamp out terrorism which could be viewed as being sold up the river
5. Prevent a conflagration of unimaginable proportions if 3 and 4 occur together and which will occur if 2 comes true.

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 24, 2009 @ 2:11 pm

Dear Off-the-cuff,

Thanks for the clarification, but my calculation should not be used as the basis for anything as the figures were plucked out of thin air, merely to illustrate the point. It could be the case that 2300 cadres perished, leaving only 200 cadres in the population.

In any case, there seem to be two main schools of thought. One, shared by Dr. Nesiah and Wijayapala, that the remaining LTTE cadres, regardless of the number, do not pose a sufficient threat to justify continued internment. The other, as explained by Off-the-cuff and is the express view of the govt., that identifying as many cadres as possible is imperative to minimizing security risks.

The merits/demerits of these viewpoints may be debatable, and I myself am presently inclined towards the belief that this internment is highly unlikely to be useful. In the past I’ve defended the latter view however, against attempts to portray it as being racially motivated. Paranoid, pointless, cruel are all labels I think one can accept. But I do not see how the internment itself can be labelled racist or what race has got to do with it at all. The reasoning process behind it has no “racist” logic behind it as far as I can see. The IDPs are interned as a result of having *lived under the LTTE*, not because of being Tamil. Yet, there are many people who interpret this as some sort of racist policy simply because the IDPs *happen* to be Tamil. That to me seems more a case of confirming one’s own prejudice and/or having a field day with stirring that bubbling pot of racial enmity (as in the case of Heshan) and/or conflating other issues (such as general distrust of NGOs, aid groups, general issues Tamils have etc) with this one.

Thankfully, these discussions are becoming rapidly irrelevant, much to everyone’s collective relief I’m sure, as resettlement of 40,000 IDPs has now commenced (http://www.defence.lk/new.asp?fname=20091022_10).

Heshan said,

October 24, 2009 @ 8:15 pm

@SomewhatDisgusted:

It is not my intention to stir up racial enmity. However, to assume that the IDP’s are being detained indefinitely merely for the sake of “safety” or “landmines” is an absurd argument. To blame the LTTE for their incarceration (when in fact the LTTE has ceased to exist) is equally absurd. As soon as the EU released its damning report, the Government pledged to released 40,000 IDP’s as soon as possible… does this not show that the Tamils have merely become a pawn in a tangled web of geopolitics?

Further, it is worthwhile to consider parallel scenarios, such as, would the Government ever detain such a large number of individuals from the majority (Sinhalese) community, in similar camps? This kind of analysis shows that, in fact, the State subscribes to a racist ideology, one that stems from pre-Independence. It is important to realize that the IDP camps are simply an outgrowth of that ideology… nowhere in the world, neither Kashmir, nor Palestine, nor Chechnya – where guerilla warfare has figured prominently – does a government detain such a large number of its own citizens in squalid citizens.

We must also be aware of the blatant denial of freedom, The North and East, by the Governmen’t own assertion, will be under martial law for decades to come. There are four new high security zones which will be built in former LTTE areas. In other words, every Tamil area in the North will have a large number of Sinhalese armed forces present. I need not point out that, as usual, those armed forces will be free to act with impunity.

Let me summarize briefly: if one only looks at the camps, any conclusion that one may draw is lacking in depth. This is the mistake made by the donors who fund the camps, including the UN. One must come to the realization that the camps don’t exist in a vacuum, that they are part of a larger scheme of things which will play out longer after the dust settles on the last closed camp. And of course, that if precedent is anything to go by, there is absolutely no justification for these camps to exist in the first place.

Heshan said,

October 24, 2009 @ 8:18 pm

*in squalid conditions

Off the Cuff said,

October 24, 2009 @ 9:40 pm

Dear SomewhatDisgusted,

Appreciate your comments. I knew the figures were just arbitrarily picked. Just wanted to show how those figures would look like when translated to IDP figures used.

I have discussed it in my latest reply to Dr Nessiah above

Internment has already proven useful when you consider the numbers of LTTE cadres that have been caught and the amount of Arms and Munitions already discovered and removed. This could not have been possible if the IDP’s were released (along with the 11,000 cadres) without adequate screening.

What that would have meant for the rest of the SL population need no imagination.

I hope they catch the rest of the cadres in hiding soon so all IDP’s could be resettled and this suffering ended quickly.

I am very happy to see that 66,685 IDP’s have so far been released. I believe that the govt will achieve the 80% target before the end of the year.

The IDP problem existed in the East as well. The numbers involved were about 50,000 less. They were resettled successfully as the cadre problem did not complicate the issue there. The remainder of the Vanni IDP’s are now less than what it was in the East and I hope come January, this problem will end and development in the North could keep to the same pace as in the East.

I note that one of the persons you correctly identified has brought up the Times of UK cannard of 20,000 civilian deaths again. I wrote to Timesonline UK when they published that cooked up story pointing out the inconsistencies in their story which points to a fabrication. I received an auto response email acknowledging my email but nothing got published.

Mawatha Silva brought this up earlier on GV and I posted a detailed explanation exposing the lies of Times on line. It is available at
http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/28/doing-the-right-thing-freedom-for-vanni-idps/#comment-9618

BTW I found it very difficult to post critical views on Times on Line while posts from “Mawatha Silva” proliferates. There are many Tamils on Times on line posting with Sinhala names and other foreign names.

The person you mentioned posted this on GV in response to a comment from me

I stated the following to show that Education using the mother tongue as a base, is superior to the exclusive use of English and as I have lived in Japan for a considerable time knew that country first hand.

I stated:- “Education in the following countries are not based on the use of English. Germany, France, Russia, Japan, China and probably Korea as well (There would be more). The advancement achieved by these countries is sufficient proof if proof is needed.”

This was his response
Five of the countries you named, except for China, are industrialized. Ironically, despite such industrialization, the vast majority of people in all of these countries can speak English fairly well. You mentioned three European countries… most Europeans can speak 3 or 4 different languages fluently. Clearly, this is a contradiction of your “mother tongue is best” theory.

That was sufficient for me to realize that no meaningful discussion is possible with him and hence I avoid all his comments. A guy who benefits from SL’s Free Education, goes abroad and starts spreading unsubstantiated canards about the country of his birth is an ingrate not worth any attention.

wijayapala said,

October 24, 2009 @ 10:32 pm

Dr. Nesiah,

Off the Cuff’s paranoia is evident in the sweeping suspicion of Tamils, international NGOs and the West. The pressure to negotiate an end to the war was not to save LTTE leaders (the LTTE was already proscribed in many countries) but to save civilian lives that were needlessly lost.

I agree with most of what you say.

What do you think about these aforementioned groups’ stand on the current offensive in Pakistan, and the effect on civilian lives?

Vichara said,

October 24, 2009 @ 10:34 pm

Wijaypala’s example of the action by the mother of Paramadeva is an isolated incident which was a reaction to the killing of her other son by the LTTE. It does not reflect the loyalty of other mahaveer families.
If members of mahaveer families in the camps have not broken the law they should be treated as all other civilian IDPs. That is where screening is necessary. The fact that at a given moment LTTE activists are acting like zero does not exclude them from reactivating themselves at a future moment.

Where did Nesiah blame everything on the Sinhalese?
I need to make a clarification. The two parties involved in this problem are the Sinhalese and the Tamils. Of course the political decisions taken on the concerned issues have been taken by the respective political leadership. When Nesiah utters half truths on these issues he picks on the Sinhalese leadership. When he states that the “tribal instincts” overcame the religious and ethical values in the final battle he refers to the Sinhalese. Why did he not refer to the other obvious solution available to prevent civilian casualties of releasing the hostages? His silence on the misdeeds/mistakes of the Tamil community leads to the conclusion that he is placing blame on everything on the Sinhalese community.

I have said that unless we have the willingness to separate facts from myths, refrain from making political capital from ethnic issues and have the courage to admit that both communities (political leadership) have made mistakes in the past and continue to make them the national misery is bound to continue.

Question- does “Tamil employment” in Marga’s statistics include the up-country Tamils (I presume that it does not include the Tamil-speaking Muslims)? If so, then the population ratio should be over 18 percent, not 12.7.
I am afraid I do not have a copy of the Marga study for reference, but it is a fact that in the early 80s there hardly any Tamils of Indian origin employed in the State sector.

I note that the statistics of Tamil speaking Public Servants quoted by Wijayapala refers to the year 2002 and not 2006 as he has indicated. The year of the statistics is not very important to support his argument, but he has ignored the 19.8 percent employed in the Provincial Councils.
I must thank Wijayapala for providing the link to the Frontline article titled Language Barrier. The writer of the article very correctly concludes that the crux of the problem is one of mindset. My humble point of view is that forcing a language on public servants will not result in a change of their mindset of learning a second and a third language if they do not see its justification and its utility value from a personal angle. I think applying the three language solution on a country wide scale is uneconomic and unproductive. Why should a Tamil public servant in the Jaffna District learn Sinhalese and similarly why should a Sinhalese public servant in the Matara District be forced to be proficient in the Tamil language. Imagine a situation where in order to serve a minuscule population of Sinhalese settlers or visitors, all Jaffna public servants need to learn Sinhalese and also equip every state office with Sinhalese typewriters etc. The same argument applies in the Matara District.
My suggestion is that the choice of the official language should be made on a District basis. For example the language of over two thirds of the population in a District should be the official language of that District. Two language solution should apply only in Districts where there is a mixed population. English as the pathway to knowledge should be made compulsory through out the island from the primary classes. English could be used for official communication between Tamil and Sinhalese language Districts.

I agree with SomewhatDisgusted that events are rapidly overtaking this discourse. It has been a learning experience for me.

Off the Cuff said,

October 24, 2009 @ 11:24 pm

Dear Mr. Wijayapala,

I read two recent posts of yours that convinced me that I have made a mistake in grouping you with people like Mawatha Silva.

The web is full of Tamils masquerading as Sinhalese and other nationalities and the error is regretted

Please accept my profound apologies in this regard.

I will respond to your latest post as time permits

Thank you

Off the Cuff said,

October 25, 2009 @ 1:10 am

Wijayapala / Vichara,

Wijaypala’s Question- does “Tamil employment” in Marga’s statistics include the up-country Tamils (I presume that it does not include the Tamil-speaking Muslims)? If so, then the population ratio should be over 18 percent, not 12.7.

Ceylon Thamil
An ethnic-linguistic id, separating them from the rest of the 100 million global Thamils

So says Suren Raghavan

He specifically separates Ceylon Tamils from any other Tamil. I fail to understand the logic though.

Tamils and Muslims are ethnically completely different
Equitable distribution of opportunities and resources require that each community gets an equal share of it. Hence they cannot be combined on the basis of Language.

I believe that Equitable sharing cannot be based on anything other than the ethnic ratio of the population

Heshan said,

October 25, 2009 @ 1:45 am

@Off the Cuff

“Education in the following countries are not based on the use of English. Germany, France, Russia, Japan, China and probably Korea as well (There would be more). The advancement achieved by these countries is sufficient proof if proof is needed.”

Offering logically consistent proofs is clearly not your forte, and so I am not surprised you could find no rebuttal to my arguments. On the other hand, delusion seems to come quite naturally to you, as evidenced by your amusing estimates of IDP numbers, or the assertion that Tamils are posting here with Sinhalese names. Despite the lengthy tomes which you spout on GV, I have offered few responses since the inaccuracies are so glaringly obvious that a year 5 student could come up with a half-dozen in mere minutes. You might want to take a cue from your more polished comrade Dayan Jayatillake and resort to circular logic – in his case, wrapped in esoteric Marxist polemic. Approaching the questions head-on, such as you do, will only leave readers amused at your total lack of understanding.

Regarding the original issue to which you refer, I stand by my original position. That having a grasp of the “mother tongue” will make little difference in the intellectual development of an individual. I already mentioned the “right-brain, left-brain” hypothesis and how this accounts for an individuals analytical/humanistic abilities. The right hemisphere of the brain, responsible for language, does not respond any better to one particular language than it does to another. On the other hand, there is strong scientific evidence to suggest that most individuals are more inclined to use their “right brain” over their “left brain” or vice-versa. In other words, most of us are BORN with a particular dispensation for either the humanities (holistic thinking) or abstract/logical thinking (e.g. mathematics). Genetics is another obvious factor, but this would probably be in direct relation to right-brain vs. left-brain. A family of right-brained musicians, e.g. the “Bachs”, would not suddenly produce a championship chess player. There are exceptions called “mutations”, but that is an exception, not the rule. I also mentioned that small children easily pick up any language. All of this goes to show that the “mother tongue” is in fact just another “tongue,” equal in value to all other “tongues.” The final argument I gave was that every human language is inherently flawed; anyone working in a technical field, as I do, will easily understand that. This leaves open the question, what *practical* value is there in learning the “mother tongue?” Excluding sentimal reasons, which cannot be objectively verified, the answer is none.

Heshan said,

October 25, 2009 @ 1:47 am

*sentimental

Heshan said,

October 25, 2009 @ 2:12 am

For those who defend the camps in lieu of the need to “screen,” I would ask, how effective is such screening to begin with? Most of the hidden weapons caches that have been unearthed are based on info given by the 10,000 LTTE who voluntarily surrendered.

Screening is simply a less sinister term for interrogation. I do not think that any interrogation method worth its salt would need three months for maximum information to be gleaned. Furthermore, the more time that passes by, the less effective that such interrogation becomes. We are talking about people moved from a virtual jungle to a barbed wire enclosure. Memories fade… associations with particular events, places, and people become less and less consistent, if not downright lacking or inaccurate. Individuals become more accustomed to their new surroundings, thereby making it easier for them to undermine the interrogation process.

My personal opinion is that it is more worthwhile to catch a big few fish, of the likes of K.P. who can reveal 99% of all valuable information. The entire population of Wanni supported the LTTE at some point or another; to go after every cadre, therefore, is an exercise in futility (and an atrocious financial expenditure). There is no guarantee that an individual is going to spill the beans simply because he is being interrogated. There is no guarantee that others will point him out (they will probably point out a few if the interrogation is severe enough, but not all).

In any event, I encourage readers to read the article below about why harsh interrogation does not always work:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2452777

wijayapala said,

October 25, 2009 @ 8:56 am

Vichara,

Wijaypala’s example of the action by the mother of Paramadeva is an isolated incident which was a reaction to the killing of her other son by the LTTE. It does not reflect the loyalty of other mahaveer families.

Let me understand you correctly. Let’s say Mahinda or Gotabhaya had taken your son or daughter by force to use as cannon fodder, against your will, and then this child gets killed in combat. SLFP then declares you to be “ranaviru” or something family and gives you certain privileges.

Would you feel an overwhelming sense of loyalty to the Rajapakses or the SLFP which took your child away?

His silence on the misdeeds/mistakes of the Tamil community leads to the conclusion that he is placing blame on everything on the Sinhalese community.

Perhaps you should read some more of his writings to get a better idea of the man. See what he wrote about post-LTTE Sri Lanka:

Tamil politics will indeed have to shed any secessionist or other exclusive territorial claims to forge solidarity among Tamil speakers living all over the island as well as all residents (including Sinhalese) of the North and East. While the TNA ( as the largest Tamil party) may well take the initiative in this matter, the major initiative for all island nation building needs to be taken by the two major parties of the South, particularly by the ruling party. Wars do not solve political problems – it is political solutions that are required.

I have said that unless we have the willingness to separate facts from myths, refrain from making political capital from ethnic issues and have the courage to admit that both communities (political leadership) have made mistakes in the past and continue to make them the national misery is bound to continue.

You also said that we should “start a new chapter.” How can the IDPs start a new chapter while stuck in the camps???

it is a fact that in the early 80s there hardly any Tamils of Indian origin employed in the State sector.

Why were there hardly any up-country Tamils in the state sector. Was there a conspiracy against them the same way that there was a conspiracy against the Sinhalese?

The year of the statistics is not very important to support his argument, but he has ignored the 19.8 percent employed in the Provincial Councils.

And you have ignored that 19.8 percent covers all Tamil-speakers- both Tamils and Tamil-speaking Muslims- who form *26 percent* of the island’s population. Let’s face it- the provincial councils are not the place to get the best jobs. The data indirectly suggests that strengthening devolution will benefit the minorities, which I think is bad because I do not support devolution.

My humble point of view is that forcing a language on public servants will not result in a change of their mindset of learning a second and a third language if they do not see its justification and its utility value from a personal angle.

You missed the point of the article that Tamil-speakers are grossly underrepresented in the state sector. Earlier you complained that Sinhalese were underrepresented before and after independence- so why is it ok when Tamil-speakers are underrepresented????

You don’t have to force anybody to learn a language. A good way to promote bilingualism and trilingualism is to give bonuses and preference in public employment to those with language skills. Anyone who knows Sinhala and English, Tamil and English, or Sinhala and Tamil would get a bilingual bonus. Anyone who knows all three would get a larger trilingual bonus.

Bilingualism and trilingualism is the best way to oppose devolution of power. The Tamil demand for devolution came only after Sri Lanka became a Sinhala monolingual state.

Sinhala people learning Tamil language- not simply using English as link language- will help improve the security situation. The LTTE had an advantage over the last 30 years in that virtually no Sinhalese could speak their language, yet there were Tamils who could speak Sinhala. That made it easier for the LTTE to spy on the government, but extremely difficult for the govt to spy on the LTTE.

In many parts of India and Europe it is common to find people who can speak two or three languages. There are places in Africa where people are completely illiterate, yet they can speak 6 languages!! I hope you are not suggesting that Sinhala people lack the intelligence to learn 3 languages.

Why should a Tamil public servant in the Jaffna District learn Sinhalese…Imagine a situation where in order to serve a minuscule population of Sinhalese settlers or visitors, all Jaffna public servants need to learn Sinhalese and also equip every state office with Sinhalese typewriters etc.

That is what happened after 1956, because government correspondence from Colombo came only in Sinhala. The great hypocrisy of SWRD Bandaranaike’s “Sinhala-Only” idea was that the Sinhalese had to endure the same difficulties under the previous “English-Only” system that the Tamils did after 1956. I heard many stories from the older generation about the difficulties Sinhala villagers had in responding to official correspondence in English.

wijayapala said,

October 25, 2009 @ 9:13 am

Dear Heshan, why have you not responded to my previous post?

To blame the LTTE for their incarceration (when in fact the LTTE has ceased to exist) is equally absurd.

You are correct that we cannot blame the extinct LTTE for what happens from this point onward. However the LTTE was very central to how we got to our present position. If there was no LTTE, there would’ve been no IDP camps, no war, and even no SLA in the north.

I mentioned before that the LTTE is primarily responsible for the current predicament of the IDPs. I also mentioned separately that the LTTE had been propped up by elements in the Tamil diaspora. Here is a good article by a diaspora Tamil activist:

The Tamil diaspora: solidarities and realities
Nirmala Rajasingam

It is striking, however, that in all the demonstrations not a single cry, slogan or placard seems to demand that the Tigers should let the civilians go or cease their own assaults on them. The silence of the diaspora community on this issue is deafening. The general support for the Tamils’ cause has in the public arena collapsed into one soundbite. There is no recognition in these demonstrations of the fact that the military objectives of the LTTE are no longer reconcilable with the safety of the trapped civilians. There is a disjunction between propaganda and reality here that reflects the way the logic of Tamil Tiger propaganda has become internalised by much of the diaspora. This does nothing to help Sri Lankan Tamils.

The North and East, by the Governmen’t own assertion, will be under martial law for decades to come. There are four new high security zones which will be built in former LTTE areas.

You are aware that the LTTE had its own “high security zones” in the Wanni, no?

In other words, every Tamil area in the North will have a large number of Sinhalese armed forces present. I need not point out that, as usual, those armed forces will be free to act with impunity.

Will they be able to force Tamil children to enlist? That’s what I would call impunity.

Heshan said,

October 25, 2009 @ 12:35 pm

@ Wijayapala:

I have answered all of your posts. If you are too slow to comprehend, thats your business, not mine.

“You are correct that we cannot blame the extinct LTTE for what happens from this point onward.”

“If there was no LTTE, there would’ve been no IDP camps.”

The IDP camps have nothing to do with the LTTE. Just because the Government uses the LTTE to justify the existance of the camps does not impy that such an excuse is valid.

“However the LTTE was very central to how we got to our present position. , no war, ”

Sinhala-Buddhist nationalism preceded the LTTE by 40-50 years. Without Sinhala-Buddhist nationalism, there would have been no LTTE, that is for certain.

“…and even no SLA in the north.”

The SLA was in the North long before the LTTE came into play.

Heshan said,

October 25, 2009 @ 12:47 pm

“I mentioned before that the LTTE is primarily responsible for the current predicament of the IDPs. I also mentioned separately that the LTTE had been propped up by elements in the Tamil diaspora. Here is a good article by a diaspora Tamil activist:”

The LTTE did not put 300000 Tamils into camps. Therefore the LTTE is not responsible for the current predicament. There is nothing preventing the Government from releasing all of the inmates in the camps.


It is striking, however, that in all the demonstrations not a single cry, slogan or placard seems to demand that the Tigers should let the civilians go or cease their own assaults on them. The silence of the diaspora community on this issue is deafening. The general support for the Tamils’ cause has in the public arena collapsed into one soundbite. There is no recognition in these demonstrations of the fact that the military objectives of the LTTE are no longer reconcilable with the safety of the trapped civilians. There is a disjunction between propaganda and reality here that reflects the way the logic of Tamil Tiger propaganda has become internalised by much of the diaspora. This does nothing to help Sri Lankan Tamils.”

Did anyone ask the civilians whom they preferred – the Tigers or the Sri Lanka Government/Army? Why should one believe that the civilians preferred to leave Tiger areas and move to detention camps, camps in which they would be treated like cattle by the Sri Lankan Army?


You are aware that the LTTE had its own “high security zones” in the Wanni, no? ”

What utter absolute nonsense. Do you have even the slightest awareness of the ground reality? The LTTE did not steal anyone’s land under the guise of “security.”

“Will they be able to force Tamil children to enlist? That’s what I would call impunity.”

Tamil children need not have enlisted had the barbarian army from the South stayed in the South. If I were a Tamil, and some crazy marauding child-rapist Army came to my home, then I too would happily join the LTTE, or whatever organization it was.

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 25, 2009 @ 2:56 pm

Wijayapala >>

Thank you for your very fair-minded posts. I appreciate your attempts to avoid unconsciously leaning towards a particular “side”. What we need is more people treading such middle ground and confronting one’s own beliefs. Unfortunately, that’s not an easy thing to do on many forums due to the one-sided nature of the arguments adopted by some. At some level, this is also a matter of which “memes” dominate, and people like Heshan are stellar examples of how repeating the same BS is an excellent way to badger people into submission and drill a set of memes into people’s heads. Argumentum ad nauseum.

On another note, I’m interested in knowing why you oppose devolution of power.

And about the language issue. I agree that bilingualism should be rewarded. But from a practical perspective, I find Vichara’s suggestion of making the dominant language in a particular district the primary one, followed by adequate support for other languages, makes some sense. Of course, care should be taken to ensure that the dominant language in a particular region does not simply bulldoze others out of the way, but instead, be adopted in a ratio proportionate to the speakers in that region. For example, if 30% of an area speak Sinhalese, then 30% of the officers should speak Sinhalese and the rest should speak Tamil and vice versa. I would also add that a minimum of at least one Tamil/Sinhala speaking officer be present in all govt. offices even if all people in that district speak a single language, in order to ensure that all people receive service. This appears a practical solution to the problem at hand.

Going on to reward bi/trilingual speakers would encourage this further. Perhaps police officers and the like may have to be an exception to the rule, mandating bilingual speakers. But I’m not sure any country in the world has the resources/capacity to execute a forced bilingual policy overnight, let alone in a 3rd world country like ours. I am also interested in gathering perspectives on how fair it is to expect such a thing? Does any other country mandate such a policy?

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 25, 2009 @ 5:04 pm

Heshan >>

If you’d bothered to read the posts on this article, instead of repeating your usual propaganda, you’ll see that no one in this thread buys into any “land-mine” theory.

And if you had read this thread, you’ll also see that your question “would the govt. intern Sinhala civilians?” has already been answered. It’s happened before during JVP times. So It appears that you’re willfully refusing to acknowledge these facts so that you can continue to push your racial agenda.

I do not engage with you as a rule because I realized a long time ago that it’s fruitless to do so. One cannot have a dialogue with a person who insists on a monologue and a black & white view of the world. I’ve chosen to make an exception this time but I’m sure to regret it soon enough.

Cheers!

Off the Cuff said,

October 25, 2009 @ 6:07 pm

Dear Mr. Wijayapala,

I used an average family size of 4 persons. This has proved to be a higher number than the actual, as the recently released 41,685 IDPs belong to 12,095 families which yields an average family size of 3.45 persons. Hence the average size of 4 used has proven to be conservative.

The IDP’s as per Dr. SN’s article is 280,000. I have used 250,000 which is the actual number in Menik Farm. A further 12,000 approx is in hospitals and other permanent buildings. Those in hospitals include the seriously war wounded who could be both civilians as well as fighting cadres

The “POTENTIAL” cadre size in the population is based on Prabahkaran’s diktat that required one person from each family to fight. Except for Devanayagam, Karuna and their followers (some of whom were killed by the LTTE), everyone else who dared to defy him ended up dead (even armed leaders). Hence it would be far fetched to state that the “unarmed civilians” could override such a diktat. The example of an isolated mother who threw caution to the wind in expressing her motherly love and grief at the loss of her sibling cannot be used as an example of “general behavior” of Prabahkaran’s subjects, as it is not.

If we assume a conservative age of 7 years and below to be an impressionable age for a child “EVERY” person below the age of 35 years would be “COMPLETELY” indoctrinated by LTTE ideology and one of those was to “Die for the cause of Eelam”.

If we go back another 10 years to include “ALL” children (17 and below) then “EVERY PERSON” below 45 years would be considered completely “INDOCTRINATED”. This means every person of fighting age is indoctrinated.

“Every” Govt school located within LTTE territory were instruments of LTTE indoctrination.

It is also known that Prabhakaran recruited children as young as 10 years. Hence the indoctrinated population between 35 and 10 years, were potentially, willing to “Die for Eelam”

Applying the above to the IDP population we have a “POTENTIAL” fighting force of 62,500 out of which my estimated figure was 15,000 – 16,000 i.e. 25% of the potential figure. The excluded IDP’s amounting to 222,000 persons (75% +12,000) can account for any plausible variable.

Let’s look at your argument.

Quote
“If you had a 4-person family with a mother, father, 5-year old and 3-year old, the LTTE would not be able to recruit any of them as indoctrinated cadre.”
Unquote

Agreed.

But at the same time, we are also assuming that the LTTE was “Humane” enough to leave “BOTH” parents to look after the children and would not force one of them to fight.

For ease of argument let’s call this “Sub Set” of the IDP population the “Safe Group”

Let’s call the remainder of the Population “Potential Fighters”

“Safe Group” + “Potential Fighters” = Total IDP Population

According to your statement, 1 family unit from “Safe Group” is matched with 1 family unit from “Potential Fighters” group to make a total of 8 IDPs that contribute just 1 fighter to the LTTE.

Now taking the Next family unit from “Safe Group” we match it with another family unit from “Potential Fighters” to obtain the second cadre.

We continue the process “UNTIL” one of the groups is exhausted.

If both groups get exhausted simultaneously (otherwise your 1:7 ratio breaks down) you are essentially saying that there are 62,500 persons below the age of 5 years in the camps i.e. “Quater” of the IDP population was born after mid 2004 and a quarter were born after “Mavil Aru”. So for 23 years the population could reach only 187,500 and within the next 5 years there was a “Baby Boom” and it reached 250,000 a 33.3% increase! With such a birth rate Tamils could have become the majority in SL within a short time.

This is the problem when hypothesis are manufactured to fit a preconceived objective. Such reverse engineering does not always work.

IDP numbers will probably become academic by December 2009 if the Govt keeps to its self imposed deadline, hopefully.

In order to avoid confusion in the mind of the reader I will confine this post to discuss the probable cadres hiding amongst the IDP population and will reply your other arguments in the same vein at another time.

Thank you

Off the Cuff

Off the Cuff said,

October 25, 2009 @ 6:45 pm

Correction

I have stated in my reply toe Mr. Wijeyapala the following

………..i.e. “Quarter” of the IDP population was born after mid 2004 and a quarter were born after “Mavil Aru”

This should read as

………..i.e. “Quarter” of the IDP population was born after mid 2004 and an eighth were born after “Mavil Aru”

The error is regretted

Heshan said,

October 25, 2009 @ 7:59 pm

@Somewhat Disgusted

You missed this point:

———
Observer said,
September 20, 2009 @ 7:43 am

P.S. If I was the president, when these UN [officials] come and ask for release, I’d go and put them in a town where there was heavy fighting, mining, unexploded shells, jumping johnnies, etc (where these people used to live) and give them a food pack a GPS a map and ask them to make it to the nearest army base without blowing off a leg. Boy I’d love to see them [bleep] their pants.

———————–

And no, the Sri Lankan Government did not intern 300000 Sinhalese civilians during JVP times. What is more significant, the Sri Lankan Government did not intern 300,000 civilians immediately after the JVP uprising, despite there being widespread support for the JVP. This clearly shows the existence of a racist State ideology.

On another note, I am no supporter of the LTTE, but to use them as a yardstick to measure every folly of the Sri Lankan Government is a gross distortion of the facts. My position is that the LTTE was/is a problem best handled by the Tamils themselves, not the thugs in Colombo.

Heshan said,

October 25, 2009 @ 8:10 pm

Once again, I leave it an open challenge for anyone in this discussion to prove that interrogation, e.g. screening is effective. What are the methods employed, what is the timeframe, and what information has been gathered so far? Unfortunately, when people do things in total secrecy, with little to no transparency, and without conforming to professional standards, it means they are doing a poor job, and/or they have some other sinister motive at hand. Which I is why I like the title of this thread.

wijayapala said,

October 26, 2009 @ 5:12 am

Off the cuff,

You can call me Wijayapala or Wije.

The “POTENTIAL” cadre size in the population is based on Prabahkaran’s diktat that required one person from each family to fight.

You’ve already stated that. However, **you still have not accounted for the casualties inflicted during the war**. Your number carries the implicit assumption that the SLA failed to kill a single Tiger over the last 3 years- otherwise you would have revised your total figure. I do not see how you and Vichara do not understand this simple yet glaring flaw in your cadre count that renders it virtually worthless, but SomewhatDisgusted got it right away.

Except for Devanayagam, Karuna and their followers (some of whom were killed by the LTTE), everyone else who dared to defy him ended up dead (even armed leaders).

Who is “Devanayagam??” Do you mean Douglas Devananda?

It is also known that Prabhakaran recruited children as young as 10 years.

I heard differently, that the youngest age was 12. Anyone younger than 12 would not have the physical prowess to be an effective fighter.

But at the same time, we are also assuming that the LTTE was “Humane” enough to leave “BOTH” parents to look after the children and would not force one of them to fight.

I am not assuming that the LTTE was “humane.” Even before 1983, the LTTE did not admit married persons because they would be loyal to their family first. The LTTE adjusted this rule after Prabakaran himself got married- cadre who had served for 5 years were allowed to marry, but even there the LTTE would often choose the spouse!

As I mentioned before, the LTTE after 1990 did not want to recruit even adults married or not. Teenagers age 12-17 were the ideal group with age 15 being the ideal age.

If both groups get exhausted simultaneously (otherwise your 1:7 ratio breaks down) you are essentially saying that there are 62,500 persons below the age of 5 years in the camps

Why don’t you tell us then- what is the proportion of IDPs between the ages of 12 (or 10, I don’t care) and 35?? It is this age group which arguably the LTTE would have had the most influence over the last two decades. My suspicion is that compared with the Sri Lankan general population, you will find a disproportionate number of children under 12 and adults over 35, courtesy of the LTTE and its use of the middle group as cannon fodder.

wijayapala said,

October 26, 2009 @ 5:48 am

SomewhatDisgusted,

On another note, I’m interested in knowing why you oppose devolution of power.

I strongly believe that devolution will ruin Sri Lankan governance and undermine the viability of the state, while providing little if any benefit to the Tamils. I want to be clear that my reasons are quite different from most (Sinhala) anti-devolutionists- I do NOT oppose devolution because I’m afraid that the devious and cunning Tamils will outsmart us mentally-challenged and witless Sinhalas, which is more or less the position of the Sinhala right wing.

The pro-devolutionists have made a very strong assumption that devolution will work in Sri Lanka the way it works in federations throughout the world. I would pose the following questions: 1) What is the smallest federation in the developing world and 2) what is the per capita income of the smallest 4 federations in the world (hint- you’ll find all of them in Europe)?

The best proof of the hollowness of devolution is best demonstrated by the Provincial Councils which were established under the 13th Amendment (under force from India). Here is a two-part article describing how the 13th Amendment was not designed for Sri Lanka’s unique situation but rather were grafted from the Indian Constitution:

‘13th amendment is Indian constitution plus’
13th amendment: Uniform civil code throughout territory no requirement

The PCs are almost universally acknowledged to be a failure. This article shows that nearly US$1 billion has been requested by the PCs for “personal emoluments”!!! What do the PCs provide to the public in turn?? Dayan Jayatilleka among others is a strong supporter of the 13th Amendment. He argues that Wayamba under Gamini Jayawickrema Perera had been a success. Whether or not that is true, it has been a failure virtually everywhere else!!

Understanding economics is the key to understanding why devolution is so poorly suited for Sri Lanka. Unless the various regions in a given country are self-sufficient, devolution of power will be both inefficient and expensive. It should come to no surprise that the only functional PC is in Western Province, where about half of the entire country’s economy is located. But poor regions such as Uva are almost completely dependent on funds from Colombo. How is devolution supposed to benefit those areas?

Almost none of the pro-devolutionists have analyzed the economic dimension of devolution, called “fiscal federalism.” Asanga Welikala of CPA is the only one of them who has made an effort to study fiscal federalism, but his essay only scratches the surface of institutional setups and doesn’t go into the actual dynamics.

Devanesan Nesiah said,

October 26, 2009 @ 10:19 am

When I asked: “are our tribal instincts superseding our religious and ethical principles? I meant just that. On a particular issue, e.g. Internment, the state may be wrong and the internees wrong, but that does not mean that I am anti-state. Even on that issue, racism is not on the part of ordinary Sinhalese; most of them may not back Internment.

Negotiating the surrender of the LTTE before the final push in later April/ early May 2009 could have saved thousands of civilian lives. By that time the LTTE held areas were well surrounded, with no possibility of the leaders either escaping or securing weapons and ammunitions. The LTTE leaders who surrendered could then have been brought to trial in our own courts, although a few of them were also wanted for trial in India and other countries. The interrogation and trial could have brought out valuable information on hidden weapons, ammunitions and explosives, as well as on the arrangements for fund raising, arms procurement, etc overseas. These obvious opportunities were needlessly lost. It serves no purpose to pretend otherwise.

I refered to some events of the mid 20th centaury only to illustrate that tribalism is not a new development. No ethnic group is inherently either more or less racist than any other. I see no purpose in conversing with any one who thinks otherwise. However, for the information of the other readers of this discussion, I would like to set down some basis facts to correct the misinformation provided be Vichara:

Universal Adult Franchise was an issue considered by the Donoughmore Commission in 1927, not by the Soulbury Commission in 1945. It was initially opposed by the Ceylon National Congress delegation led by E. W. Perera, R. S. S. Gunawardena and S.W. R.D. Bandaranayake and also by other mainstream Sinhalese leaders and some Tamil conservatives led by Ramanathan. On the other hand the Jaffna Youth Congress headed by Handy Perimpanayagam and the Ceylon Labour Union led by A. E. Goonesinha supported it. Happily the Donoughmore Commission held with the latter. Even before the State Council elections in 1931, several of those who were originally against universal adult franchise came round to enthusiastically supporting it.

There were two groups of Tamils who boycotted the 1931 elections, but for opposite reasons. The conservatives led by Ramanathan thought that the Donoughmore were too much too early. The Jaffna Youth Congress thought that they were too little too late, and demanded immediate Independence (as opposed to Dominion Status). They also campaigned for use of the National languages through out the Island. Prof. J.E. Jeyasuriya is on record that, “At a time when the Sinhalese were prepared to do without Sinhala, the battle for Sinhala and Tamil was fought by the Tamil leaders”. Progressives in Colombo including Fransis De Zoysa, E. W. Perera, T. B. Jayah, Philip Gunawardene and C.E. Corea applauded the stand of the Jaffna Youth Congress but could not muster a Southern consensus to back the boycott.

Among those closely associated with the Jaffna Youth Congress were D. B. Dhanapala, P de S. Kularatne, Swami Vipulananda, G. K. W. Perera, George E. De Silva, E. W. Perera, Peri Sundaram, D. B. Jayatillake, T. B. Jayah, C. E. Corea, Fransis de Zoysa, S. W. Dassanaike, S. W. R. D. Bandaranaike, N. M. Perera, Pieter Keneuman, Covin R. De Silva, Leslie Gunawardene, S. A. Wickramasinghe, W. Dahanayake, J.R. Jayawardene, D. S. Senanayake and Selina Perera. Several of these either participated in the founding of the Jaffna Youth Congress or were elected to preside over the annual sessions of one year or the other. Among those who came over to Jaffna from India on the invitation of the Jaffna Youth Congress were Mahathma Gandhi, Jawaharlal Nehru, Rajagopalachari, Sathyamurthy, Kamaladevi Chattopadyaya and KalyanaSundara Mudaliyar. The colonial authorities closely monitored these “subversive” activities. Selina Perera was charged for sedition on account of her speech in Jaffna at the 1941 annual sessions.

On the disfranchisement of Indian Tamils, a distinguished scholar, I.D.S. Weerawardena published his comments in 1951;
‘The Acts have taken away the vote from a group of people who already exercised it. In the result, the Ceylon Indians have virtually been denied the parliamentary seats they might have captured. In doing so, the balance of factors on the basis of which these constituencies were arranged has been disturbed. The constituencies at present represented by Ceylon Indians have been changed into “rotten boroughs”… In denying the seven seats to representatives of the Indian community by political means, the balance of communal claims that were stuck by the Ministers’ Draft and the Soulbury Constitution has been radically altered…’

Is it right that a moral undertaking given to the minority communities be broken soon after constitutional power to break it has been obtained?

Tamil is now an official language but the percentage of Tamils in the public services has dropped to around 5 percent, and the most of these are in the North or East. In consequence, Tamils are unable to conduct their official business in Tamil in many offices in the South, even in areas with large Tamils populations. It is much worse in the police and armed services.

We should indeed follow UN guide lines on IDPs and free them from internment which is contrary to those guide lines, to International Law and to Sri Lankan Law including our Constitution.

Distorting facts to score debating points is futile. We should be willing and able to identify and boldly set out the problems that our fellow citizens have and press for corrective measures including any revision of government policies. I am not interested in defending the action of either the State or the LTTE, nor to change my writing style to accommodate the prejudices of any one, nor to engage me in a debate on whether the Sinhalese or Tamils are right or wrong.

Off the Cuff said,

October 26, 2009 @ 10:19 am

Dear Wijeyapala,

This is what the UTHR Jaffna states

“early 90s in Jaffna, when the LTTE proudly displayed recruits aged 10 and sometimes even 8. That was when the LTTE ran a virtual mini state with a command of resources supplied by the government, making it feasible to sustain a reserve army of children. ”

This was in the 90s when they did not realize the adverse publicity such an open display would do. After that they did not openly display the youngest recruits but given their record the possibility of the continuation of such recruitment under a veil of secrecy cannot be ignored

Yes I meant Douglas Devananda in my erroneous reference to “Devanayagam”. The error is regretted

This is just a short note. Will write later as time permits

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 26, 2009 @ 2:24 pm

Wijayapala >>

Thank you for the explanation. I posed a question on the utility of the 13th to Dayan J. on another thread, since he is a strong advocate of such a solution (http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/11/dr-dayan-jayatilleka-on-history-of-power-sharing-in-sri-lanka-and-the-13th-amendment/#comment-8985)

I asked him whether his reasons for supporting the 13th was for political appeasement or to facilitate an actual improvement in governance. His rather short answer was that it was not ”political appeasement” but “political management”. I, unfortunately, am still not sure what he meant or what the difference is.

Devolution could very well be the answer but it should be made clear how devolution helps to create the just, egalitarian, plural society we eventually need to reach for. It appears to me that most advocates of devolution are simply clamouring for the constitutionalization of racial divisions in order to “preserve minority identities”, a throwback to a medieval state of affairs at best and hardly an ideal worth striving for. As I keep asking, how does creating ethnic enclaves in the north help to correct an equality problem in the south? Unfortunately, I have not yet received a clear answer to that question. Also, how do these proposed structures benefit the underprivileged and downtrodden masses of all ethnicities, which is what surely ought to be our primary concern?

It would also be good if you could comment on the other question I raised in my previous post, with regard to Vichara’s view on linguistic policies. What do you see as a reasonable solution to such a problem?

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 26, 2009 @ 3:14 pm

Dear Dr. Nesiah,

Thank you for that very informative post.

You said: “Tamil is now an official language but the percentage of Tamils in the public services has dropped to around 5 percent, and the most of these are in the North or East. In consequence, Tamils are unable to conduct their official business in Tamil in many offices in the South, even in areas with large Tamils populations.”

What is the reason for this drop and what measures need to be put in place to rectify this?

Vichara said,

October 27, 2009 @ 6:41 am

Dear Mr.Wijayapala
In your statement- Let’s say Mahinda or Gotabhaya had taken your son or daughter by force to use as cannon fodder, against your will, and then this child gets killed in combat. SLFP then declares you to be “ranaviru” or something family and gives you certain privileges
I am sorry; I do not follow the logic of the above statement. My point was that members of mahaveer families are likely to have been more involved with the LTTE. There is a big difference in being killed in combat with the SLA and being killed by your own kind. In your previous statement you did not mention that the killed Vasudeva was a child.
Perhaps you should read some more of his writings to get a better idea of the man. See what he wrote about post-LTTE Sri Lanka:
My comments on DN is not on any previous statements by him but are based the remarks made by him in the statement made on 17 September. In his posting dated 17 April on Post LTTE Sri Lanka, he has made a number of constructive suggestions but there is no admission of any culpability on the part of the Tamil community. He suggests a Truth and Reconciliation Committee but continues to distort facts. When Off the Cuff’ expresses a genuine concern for national security DN calls him paranoid. There is no attempt to examine his arguments dispassionately.
DN should take serious notice of the statement made by Off the Cuff on 20 October i.e. “The second requirement is to acknowledge the faults of each other with honesty. Denial of the causes that led to this problem would only serve to harden the positions of each party.”

How can the IDPs start a new chapter while stuck in the camps???
A new chapter has to be started by members of the two communities with their leaders taking the initiative.
Why were there hardly any up-country Tamils in the state sector. Was there a conspiracy against them the same way that there was a conspiracy against the Sinhalese?
The plantation Tamil community has been the most neglected and worst exploited community in the country for over 150 years. The fact that they have been living in line-rooms of 150 square feet, occupied by two or three families, without poor sanitation, did not attract the same attention as given to IDPs by the human rights do gooders and the fellow Tamils from the North. Is it because the system of exploitation was carried on by colonial masters and for over 100 years? Until recently the Plantation Tamils did not have the opportunity for higher education and to seek better careers. If there was a conspiracy it was by the White Planters.
With regard to employment statistics I did not say that 19.8 percent is a satisfactory figure of employment of Tamil speaking population. I merely mentioned that you had overlooked their employment in the Provincial Councils.
I in agreement with you on the subject of devolution. But I do not know whether it is for the same reasons. The ultimate objective of devolution is good governance. By if devolution results in inefficiency, nepotism and sheer waste is it of any value? This is a vital topic which needs urgent and special attention.
Earlier you complained that Sinhalese were underrepresented before and after independence- so why is it ok when Tamil-speakers are underrepresented????
I did not complain but gave an explanation of the dominance of Tamils in public life before independence, quoting J. N Dixit. I conceded that electoral compulsions made successive post independence to take specific affirmative action to alleviate the discrimination experienced by the majority community. It is noted that even with the affirmative actions taken by successive governments the percentage of posts held by the Tamil community exceeded their population ratio of 12.7 percent.
It is certainly not OK if Tamil speakers are under represented. Why it is so can be properly identified only after a systematic study on the issue. But I may suggest a few probable reasons. I have already mentioned that post 1983 period has been an aberration of socio political scene in Sri Lanka. It is unlikely that any Tamil youth would have ventured to join the defense forces or the Police to be labeled a traitor and penalized by the LTTE. In the general public service it is a fact that the large majority of the posts are in non Tamil speaking areas. Potential Tamil candidates would not have been happy to be posted to Sinhalese majority areas where their security concerns could have been uppermost in their minds. But the most likely reason would be the attraction of the private sector.
The rule in the Combined Services in the State Sector, e.g. clerical and allied services, Administrative Service, the recruitment has been through competitive examinations conducted in both Sinhalese and Tamil. I do not think that any stage ethnicity would have influenced the selection process.
The Ministry for Ethnic Harmony could conduct a survey to find out what the reasons are and remove any obstacles confronting Tamil Speaking youth from joining the State Sector. I am happy to note that according to the Minster of Public Administration, every Tamil candidate who applied for posts of teachers have been recruited. Also the reported response from Tamil youth in Jaffna to join the Police is encouraging. I hope that they will not be crucified as traitors.
I repeat that forcing a language on a community which is antagonistic to the action on communal or political grounds will not succeed even giving incentives. Incentives for learning a second language were there from around late 50s. But there was no change of the mindset. People learn languages if they see some utility value in doing so. Today Sri Lankans are learning Korean, Japanese and European languages because they see a good utility value and not because of a government fiat.
The Tamil demand for devolution came only after Sri Lanka became a Sinhala monolingual state.
The Public Service was never monolingual as you claim. Tamil has also been used and English was never given up. The Federal Party was formed 1949.
SomewhatDisgusted inquires other country experience in bilinguism. “But I’m not sure any country in the world has the resources/capacity to execute a forced bilingual policy overnight, let alone in a 3rd world country like ours. I am also interested in gathering perspectives on how fair it is to expect such a thing? Does any other country mandate such a policy?”

Following are a few excerpts from a Paper titled ‘ Language Policy in Multilingual Switzerland: Overview and Recent Developments’
presented at the Cicle de confèrencies sobre política lingüística
Direcció general de política lingüística, Barcelona, 4 December 1998
by François Grin

” Switzerland may be quadrilingual, but to most intents and purposes, each point of its territory can be viewed as unilingual. Correspondingly, living in Switzerland means living entirely in German (with a diglossic pattern comprising standard German and the local Swiss-German dialect), in French or in Italian.
The three language regions do not display the same degree of homogeneity; in particular, over 20% of the population in the linguistically more diverse French-language region claim a language other than French as first language; yet, in each language region, one sole language is designated as official. This reflects the interplay of three institutional principles that represent the pillars of diversity management (or diversity governance) in Switzerland. These three principles are language territoriality, language freedom and subsidiarity.
Territoriality is defined as an unwritten constitutional principle, inferred by the Federal Tribunal (Supreme Court) from al. 1 of art. 116 of the Federal Constitution. It states that it is incumbent upon the cantons, within their boundaries, to ensure the extent and homogeneity of their language territory. In other words, the stability of language boundaries is enshrined in federal jurisdiction. One direct result from this provision is that, for example, there is no right to French-language education in German-speaking Switzerland, and vice-versa. Cantons are of course free to be more lenient, and they usually are, but there is no right of citizens to be educated in another national language.

The third pillar of the Swiss arrangement is the principle of subsidiarity. It must be recalled that sovereignty rests with the cantons, which only delegate some areas of competence to the Confederation. By implication, as long as a given competence is not explicitly assigned to the federal government by the Constitution, it remains within the purview of cantons. This is the case, for example, with education (although some aspects of higher education are regulated at the federal level) and also with language policy. One direct result, of course, is that there is practically no federal-level language policy, contrary to what one can observe in Canada, whose federal authorities are constantly involved in it. Another important result is that if a competence belongs to the cantons, the administrative acts flowing from this competence will take place in the respective official language of each individual canton. In bilingual cantons, cantonal authorities will normally use one language or the other (but not both) for the local provision of services (such as education), following the linguistic boundary. In the case of the trilingual canton of Grischun/Graubünden/Grigioni, the choice of official language has been devolved from the cantonal to the communal authorities, and language policy is defined at the level of the smallest political unit.

The inroads that English is making into the linguistic dimensions of everyday life is a matter for concern in many, perhaps most non-anglophone countries. However, in the particular context of Switzerland, it carries with it some implications that can have particularly deleterious effects..
To be sure, many Swiss citizens consider that English could be the most efficient way to solve communication problems between distinct language communities, particularly the Germanspeaking group on one side, and the “latin” minorities on the other side. “

Devanesan Nesiah said,

October 27, 2009 @ 11:58 am

Dear Off the Cuff/Mr. Wijayapala,

The debate began with my entry on ‘The Internment- A Collective Punishment’? I stand by that entry. On this issue I do consider state policy to be racist. Off the Cuff clearly identitfies with the state and refuses to criticise state policy, but goes on to assert the need to be critical. Far from being self-critical, Off the Cuff comes out with a litany of charges against Tamils. Even the faults of the colonial government are heaped on their heads.

I am as sceptical about the so-called facts in Jane’s Weekly as the ‘facts’ set out by the Off the Cuff. As a member of the ‘Older Generation’ much of what I can recall is a flat contradiction to the ‘facts’ of Off the Cuff. If I remember right, when I was appointed Secretary/ Ministry of Environment, the entire staff of all the branches of that Ministry were Sinhalese except for one clerk and one minor employee. It remained the same when I retired five years later. SLAS and clerical service recruitment was outside my purview, but in those five years I recruited many persons on the strength of various special environment related qualifications to post in the Ministry. It so happened that all of them were also Sinhalese. I did not bother to correct the ethnic imbalance because it did not effect the work of the Ministry. On the other hand, ethnic and linguistic balance were critically important to the effective functioning of some other state institutions and to certain combined services over which I had no control. Such balances were not observed and hence the drop in Tamil intake over the last fifty years or more resulting in the percentage of Tamils in the public serves falling to around five per cent. Excluded Tamils with secondary and tertiary educational qualifications drifted in to the LTTE and other militant groups just as their Sinhalese counter-parts drifted in to the JVP. The difference was that in the case of Tamils and Muslims, on top of class discrimination there was ethnic and linguistic discrimination and a growing sense of hopelessness. I entirely agree that there should be no mono-ethnic enclaves. we can learn from Indian federalism. At the time of Indian independence, the various state boundaries were as historically evolved. Demands that the boundaries should be re-drawn to take account of the linguistic character of the population were rejected by Nehru and other leaders who thought that would encourage separatism. In consequence, there were linguistic riots and separatist movements in many parts of India for several years on this issue. Nehru was compelled to yield. Subject to the need for contiguity, ‘linguistic homelands’ were created across India, with each homeland having one of India’s many major languages as its official language. Contrary to fears and expectations, this did not result in major population movements and the linguistic riots and separatist movements virtually disappeared. Once, their ‘linguistic homeland’ was created, their grievance had been addressed and many continued to live outside their ‘homeland’ for economic or other reasons. In fact inter-state migration for economic reasons is continuing, and every state is becoming ethnically and linguistically more diverse. But since the movement was voluntary those moving have no problems in accepting the official language of their new state. Those who so wish can always get back to the state in which their language is the official language.

That Thesewalamai bars Sinhalese purchasing land in Jaffna is yet another example of racist propaganda. There is no such bar. In fact, Jaffna needs investors and entrepreneurs from outside, of what ever ethnicity, but not state sponsored schemes of ethnic cleansing or colonisation. Thesawalamai requires that if you’re selling your land, you should first offer it at the market price to your family members but if they are not interested you can sell it to outsiders irrespective of ethnicity.

Off the Cuff is unwilling to accept the fact that there is surfeit of accumulated, justified anger and bitterness among Tamils, especially among the internees. Any medical officer or councillor who has worked in the Internment camps will confirm this. That the internees are unwilling or unable to speak freely is a very disturbing sign. The problem will not go away unless specifically addressed. Those who are outside and aware of the problem need to speak out on their behalf. I see no purpose in continuing a discussion with any one who is so lacking in sympathy for those detained that they object to anyone speaking on their behalf. Nor am I interested in defending those accused of being pro-Tamil.

Regarding Mr. Wijayapala’s query, if he’s referring to international NGOs and the West, my position is that we have no monopoly of racism and paranoia. These are the defining features of many Western leaders in relation to Muslim countries and Muslim people every where.They may learn their lesson in due course but many will suffer in due time.

Vichara said,

October 27, 2009 @ 6:44 pm

Devanesan Nesiah (October 27, 2009) says that he stands by his entry on ‘The Internment- A Collective Punishment’ and declares that state policy to be racist. I raised a number of issues on his entry showing that he is distorting facts. I am sorry that he has so far not taken the trouble to respond. I have conceded that the state has taken affirmative action to rectify disadvantages experienced by the majority community.

DN says that Off the Cuff comes out with a litany of charges against Tamils and even the faults of the colonial government are heaped on their heads. It is sufficient to say that the colonial powers acted in collusion with the then Tamil leaders. I am sure that DN is aware of the collusion between them and Governor Manning.
DN-Ethnic and linguistic balance were critically important to the effective functioning of some other state institutions and to certain combined services over which I had no control.
As a former senior public servant DN must be aware that selection for combined services is only on merit. I really have no objection to a population ratio is introduced for recruitment to State services. But it would also be rational to adhere to the same principle on admissions to the Universities. Would DN agree to this to strike a balance?

DN- I entirely agree that there should be no mono-ethnic enclaves.
I am happy of this statement, but I would have been happier if he is against ‘ethnic’ enclaves. Sri Lanka belongs to all its citizens.
Nehru was absolutely right on his objection to the division of India on the basis of language. With hindsight the Sarkaria Commission made the following remarks on ethnic enclaves (homelands)
“If a particular community, religious or linguistic group claims one region of its country as its homeland, it generates antagonism of other communities or groups both within that region and elsewhere; for the very idea of ‘homeland within a country implies a pernicious discrimination between the so called original inhabitants, or ‘sons of the soil’ and so called ‘immigrants’ or ‘outsiders’ from other States. Practice and promotion of such unhealthy ideas eventually lead to the creation of two or more classes of citizens all over the country” (page 16, section 1.4.25).
“Among the more pernicious of these motivations (for political power) can be recognized the role of vested interests in converting legitimate aspirations into strident discord and dissent by clever manipulation and encouragement of psychological alienation. The use of the sub-national plank for building of leadership which commands attention at the national level is another strong motivation which is responsible for throwing up the most vociferous leaders. It is from these origins that the more extreme forms of dissent and revolt against the existing order emerge in the form of extremist and terrorist action” (page 16, section 1.4.27). (Commission on Centre State Relations, chaired by Justice R. S. Sarkaria 1988).

Everybody should be relieved that at least the problem of congestion of the IDPs centers has been addressed. It is unfair to accuse any Sinhalese person not sympathizing with the IDPs. The only difference is that some people are overtly emotional about their suffering and others are more rational and want the issues to be addressed expeditiously but systematically.

Heshan said,

October 27, 2009 @ 10:03 pm

“The second requirement is to acknowledge the faults of each other with honesty. ”

Good luck with that.

wijayapala said,

October 28, 2009 @ 7:57 am

SomewhatDisgusted,

It appears to me that most advocates of devolution are simply clamouring for the constitutionalization of racial divisions in order to “preserve minority identities”, a throwback to a medieval state of affairs at best and hardly an ideal worth striving for. As I keep asking, how does creating ethnic enclaves in the north help to correct an equality problem in the south?

It doesn’t, but you have to understand that the justification for “racial devolution” uses the same majoritarianist logic as SWRD did in 1956 for Sinhala-Only. If Sinhala could be made the sole language of administration because the Sinhalese happened to comprise the majority in the island, then the Tamil nationalists could argue that they should have “Tamil Arasu” (Tamil Rule) in areas where they formed the majority. This is why I argue the only real way to defeat Tamil nationalism/separatism is to defeat the Sinhala majoritarianist mentality.

But from a practical perspective, I find Vichara’s suggestion of making the dominant language in a particular district the primary one, followed by adequate support for other languages, makes some sense.

The Tamil Language Regulations had allowed for the use of Tamil as the language of administration in Tamil-majority areas. However, the language of inter-departmental communications continued to be Sinhala! So what would be the main language in use in Colombo, and how would correspondence there be transmitted to other regions which may have a different language?

But I’m not sure any country in the world has the resources/capacity to execute a forced bilingual policy overnight, let alone in a 3rd world country like ours.

First I don’t think a bilingual policy can be implemented overnight, let alone be forced as I indicated previously. However, if Sri Lanka could spend billions on a self-destructive 30-year war, why can’t it have the resources to pursue bilingualism?

Here’s an article on Canada’s language policies. Looks like there are a few paranoid English-speakers there scared about “Bilingual Today, French Tomorrow” the same way some Sinhalese are afraid of the Tamil language.

wijayapala said,

October 28, 2009 @ 8:38 am

Vichara,

I am sorry; I do not follow the logic of the above statement. My point was that members of mahaveer families are likely to have been more involved with the LTTE.

You may not be aware that virtually all parents opposed allowing their children to join the LTTE. UTHR and other human rights organizations had documented how the LTTE very often took children at gunpoint away from their families. I don’t think you were aware of this, otherwise you wouldn’t be arguing that these same families would be loyal to the LTTE and would take whatever handouts from the LTTE with a stupid grin.

Obviously there were exceptions- there are true “LTTE families” out there, and it is also true that most of them were in the Wanni. But tracking down each one of them in the sea of IDPs will take an extremely long time- time that the IDPs awaiting the monsoon don’t have.

My comments on DN is not on any previous statements by him but are based the remarks made by him in the statement made on 17 September.

Then I’m sorry to say that your comments are worthless if they are based on a SINGLE one of Nesiah’s statements. That is called “taking a statement out of context.” It is not possible for one to jot down every single belief he/she has in a single statement. On the basis of a few statements I had made, Off the Cuff had assumed that I am a Tamil pretending to be Sinhala and made an ass out of himself, although he had the dignity and grace to retract what he said.

When Off the Cuff’ expresses a genuine concern for national security DN calls him paranoid.

That is because his notion of “national security” excludes the IDPs, literally leaving them to be washed away by the rain. It would more accurately be called “selective security” or “security for only those I know.” I agreed with Nesiah’s calling this thinking “paranoid” because it is based on ignorance, as I explained to Off the Cuff above.

I could be wrong, though; I can’t judge this thinking entirely from a few statements…

There is no attempt to examine his arguments dispassionately.

It’s hard to examine these arguments dispassionately when the arguments themselves are the product of pure fear. At the very basic level, the argument for keeping the IDPs locked in the camps is that you’re scared to death of them. For some reason you’re not admitting that you are frightened; instead you’re substituting terms like “national security” to mask what is basically an insecurity deep inside.

DN should take serious notice of the statement made by Off the Cuff on 20 October i.e. “The second requirement is to acknowledge the faults of each other with honesty. Denial of the causes that led to this problem would only serve to harden the positions of each party.”

Then it remains to be established what exactly were “the causes that led to this problem.” From my experience with human beings, it is far easier to point out someone else’s shortcomings than one’s own. I have yet to see any statement here from you or Off the Cuff acknowledging that Sinhalese had anything to do with “this problem.” Instead I’ve only seen “facts” that the Tamils were a British tool to keep down the Sinhalese and that the Tamils used to be overrepresented in government employment (while ignoring the present day when the Tamils are underrepresented).

How can the IDPs start a new chapter while stuck in the camps???
“A new chapter has to be started by members of the two communities with their leaders taking the initiative.

The above platitude is just as useless as saying, “the problems in the Middle East will end when people embrace peace” or “corruption in Sri Lanka will disappear when the leaders embrace honesty.”

Let me rephrase my question: How can the IDPs and their leaders take the initiative to open the new chapter while stuck in the camps???

The plantation Tamil community has been the most neglected and worst exploited community in the country for over 150 years. The fact that they have been living in line-rooms of 150 square feet, occupied by two or three families, without poor sanitation, did not attract the same attention as given to IDPs by the human rights do gooders and the fellow Tamils from the North. Is it because the system of exploitation was carried on by colonial masters and for over 100 years? Until recently the Plantation Tamils did not have the opportunity for higher education and to seek better careers. If there was a conspiracy it was by the White Planters.

Question- after independence, AFTER the white man left Sri Lanka, who was responsible for neglecting and exploiting the up-country Tamils? Why until recently did they have no opportunity for higher education?

wijayapala said,

October 28, 2009 @ 9:03 am

Dr. Nesiah,

Sir, I intend no disrespect but it would be a little easier to read your posts if you would break your very large paragraphs into smaller ones. Brevity is the soul of wit.

Negotiating the surrender of the LTTE before the final push in later April/ early May 2009 could have saved thousands of civilian lives. By that time the LTTE held areas were well surrounded, with no possibility of the leaders either escaping or securing weapons and ammunitions.

Respectfully I disagree. The LTTE seemed to have an endless supply of ammunition, and it was shelling the SLA while hiding behind civilians. The situation was not sustainable (unless you believe that the SLA soldiers were expendable cannon fodder) and the LTTE was NOT interested in surrender. DBS Jeyaraj’s article on The last days of Thiruvenkadam Veluppillai Prabhakaran shows that Prabakaran only tried to go for a negotiated surrender at the very last minute, AFTER the final offensive had begun. The LTTE’s plan all along was to fight to the death, and in death it would take down as many Tamil civilians with it as it could.

The LTTE leaders who surrendered could then have been brought to trial in our own courts, although a few of them were also wanted for trial in India and other countries. The interrogation and trial could have brought out valuable information on hidden weapons, ammunitions and explosives, as well as on the arrangements for fund raising, arms procurement, etc overseas. These obvious opportunities were needlessly lost.

Not really. There were some leaders who had surrendered, and KP the procurement man was apprehended.

Excluded Tamils with secondary and tertiary educational qualifications drifted in to the LTTE and other militant groups just as their Sinhalese counter-parts drifted in to the JVP.

I heard differently. Prabakaran himself was a grade 8 dropout, and most of those who joined the pre-1983 LTTE (NOT Thamil Manavar Peravai or GUES or EROS or similar “student militant” groups) were basically young hoodlums. Raghavan and the original Charles Anthony aka Seelan had come from broken homes. Others like Kittu and Mahattaya had emotional/psychological problems. They were far from the cream of Tamil youth.

The difference was that in the case of Tamils and Muslims, on top of class discrimination there was ethnic and linguistic discrimination and a growing sense of hopelessness.

Why did you lump the Tamils and Muslims together? The Muslims never got involved in militancy.

I entirely agree that there should be no mono-ethnic enclaves. we can learn from Indian federalism.

Again respectfully I must disagree, Indian federalism is a poor model for Sri Lanka. Do you remember how Karunanidhi as Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu in the late 1980s gave sanctuary to the LTTE while it was fighting the IPKF??? How is that he had never been held accountable for that and is in fact the Chief Minister today?

wijayapala said,

October 28, 2009 @ 9:14 am

Off the Cuff,

“early 90s in Jaffna, when the LTTE proudly displayed recruits aged 10 and sometimes even 8.

Thank you for correcting my error. I think the LTTE had experimented with recruiting this young age children early on, but by 1995 it settled on the 12-17 year age range.

I look forward to hearing you name one current leader in the LTTE who could pose a real threat (and not joke about the ancient diaspora fart Daya Idaikkar serving in that capacity). Also I’d still like to know what the Tamils did to merit severe violence directed against them as a community in 1956, 1958, 1977, and 1983- and please don’t suggest that the Tamils being overrepresented in government was a sufficient excuse for them to be attacked.

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 28, 2009 @ 2:58 pm

Wijayapala,

You said: “This is why I argue the only real way to defeat Tamil nationalism/separatism is to defeat the Sinhala majoritarianist mentality.”

I agree depending on how exactly you meant it. I don’t believe that tackling Sinhala majoritarianism alone is enough, although that is doubtless the most pressing need at the moment. My feeling is that both these nationalisms are a serious scourge to “the rest of us” since they mutually reinforce each other. I (and others) argued about this at some length on a different thread, when one poster suggested that Tamil nationalism does not count on account of Tamils being a minority and therefore incapable of institutional racism: (http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/17/delusions-of-power-devolution-searching-post%E2%80%93prapa-possibilities/#comment-9222)

“So what would be the main language in use in Colombo, and how would correspondence there be transmitted to other regions which may have a different language?”

I think it’s apparent that inter-regional communication will mandate the use of both languages. Establishing easily accessible translation services are also options for providing service better suited to individual linguistic needs, such as that followed by the Australian govt.

“First I don’t think a bilingual policy can be implemented overnight, let alone be forced as I indicated previously”

I should clarify that I phrased this question based on suggestions on a different thread. “http://www.groundviews.org/2009/10/13/even-post-war-discrimination-runs-deep-in-sri-lanka/#comments” My apologies for the confusion. In that thread, certain posters suggested enforced bilingual policies and pegged down the lack of progress so far to racism. I tried to point out that there was more to it than racism alone.

“However, if Sri Lanka could spend billions on a self-destructive 30-year war, why can’t it have the resources to pursue bilingualism?”

This unfortunately, is similar to asking “if we can decimate a terrorist group which held 1/3 of the country hostage, why can’t we crack down on corruption and lawlessness?”. The issue, at least partly I feel, is due to inertia and systemic rot. There is no doubt that pursuing bilingualism is possible should adequate effort be put in but we all know that most things in Sri Lanka improve at a glacial pace, if at all. This reality should also be taken into account when analyzing the situation. Unfortunately, there is a tendency by some to view virtually every problem as being caused by racism. You know the saying, when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

This is also why I feel that a pressing need at the moment is to get all parties to a “live and let live” position, instead of blowing each other to bits and generally indulging in this blame-game which is of no use to anybody. Improvements will have to be made gradually.

Off the Cuff said,

October 29, 2009 @ 12:00 am

Dear Dr Devanasan Nesiah,

You state: “Far from being self-critical, Off the Cuff comes out with a litany of charges against Tamils. Even the faults of the colonial government are heaped on their heads.”

The above statement is an admission that the Colonial Powers had indeed committed faults. No contest there, yes they did.

Now comes the question what these “Litany” of faults are, that I have enumerated because the discussion is limited to what I have stated and not to all faults of the colonials.

Given below are the only faults that I attributed to the colonials and you by your tacit admission have accepted them to be true, what ever you say afterward.

1. “That the Tamils were an instrument the British used to rule over the majority before independence is a fact”
2. “That some govt depts had an overwhelming majority of Tamils in them is a fact.”

If you describe the above as a “Litany” I do not know what word in the English Language that you would use for a long list.

BTW please note sir, that I stated “Some govt depts” not ALL.

You say “As a member of the ‘Older Generation’ much of what I can recall is a flat contradiction to the ‘facts’ of Off the Cuff”

You are about 72 years of age now and would have started your working career in 1959. Your parent’s generation would have been employed through the Pre and Post independence era and would be better qualified in that sense. That is not to say that you don’t have any knowledge of what went on during that time, you probably do, but the question is will you honestly admit?

Why did you choose a period 44 years remote from immediate pre Independence? 1991 is 44 years after “immediate pre independence” and you never mentioned that you were writing about 1991 and not about 1947 !!!

The relevant period commences at least from 1947 onwards. Please choose the correct period as an example.

Your chosen Ministry may not have had a preponderance of Tamils in 1991 over four decades later, independence was obtained in 1948, hence you should have brought examples from 1947 onwards.

I was talking of Depts not Ministries; what about the Customs, Inland Revenue, Dept of Electrical Undertakings, and also probably Immigration, Railways and Survey? The immediate Pre Independence figures would be the most relevant. Unfortunately because official figures are not yet accessible on the web I cannot give the GV readership any reference but I indicated possible sources that can be used by any Govt or other initiative to get at the TRUTH. The Pensions records would probably shed more light than the others.

Secondly, Vichara has provided figures published by MARGA that shows the imbalance clearly. You are very closely associated with Marga and have not contested them, why?

You say: “Off the Cuff clearly identifies with the state and refuses to criticise state policy,”

That statement cuts both ways, I can say that you clearly identify with the LTTE, but my sense of fair argument prevented me from doing so. Anyway I do not identify with the State and will not hesitate to criticize it if the need arises but in the event under discussion, I understand why the State has to act in this way.

Please don’t misinterpret my objective that I have very clearly enumerated repeatedly in my posts. I restate them below to make things clear.

1. Internment of ANY human being without just cause is WRONG
2. The lives of the General population consisting of Tamils, Muslims, Sinhalese and other minority groups take precedence over anything else

In order to emphasize the second point I remind you of the following

Dr. Pradeep Jeganathan, a Tamil social anthropologist who has studied violence and its aftermath in SL for 15 years recognizes the danger and he states thus.

“I have written about this several times, questioning it, but the matter is correctly not academic, as such, since there is a clear and present danger that a small portion of the refugees might well be hard core LTTE cadres. Since there is larger number of people involved, even a small portion may be a very serious matter.”

This is another Tamil view from a person who has REGULAR access to the camps
Mr. Nesan Shankar Raji says
“I personally visited these camps in April between 9th and 19th & our members on ground in Vavuniya visit the camps regularly to gather feedback from civilians. Yes, there have been issues with food not being delivered on time etc, but our people are not starving or being mistreated. They are receiving 3 meals per day & are being housed in adequate & safe conditions with full medical facilities being provided. There are 52 NGO’s including the ICRC & the UN working on ground…. “

This is what I wrote at an earlier stage of this discussion
“If we take the population of SL it can be sub divided into the ethnic subsets. Of these ethnic subsets the probability of finding a terrorist is very high in the Tamil subset than in the others. The Tamil subset can be further subdivided into those who lived under the LTTE and those who did not. The probability of a terrorist being found in the former subset is much greater than the probability of finding one in the later. Both subsets are Tamil but one has a higher density of Terrorists than the other, this is the subset living as IDP’s.” You being a mathematics scholar the substance of the argument cannot be lost on you.

I have consistently shown that the Govt has only two choices

1. Allow freedom of movement for the IDPs and enlarge the waiting terrorists along with the genuinely innocent civilians

2. Screen the IDP’s properly to identify and remove the terrorists for rehabilitation and prosecution as necessary and subsequently allow the others free movement

Both above choices have disastrous consequences.

If the first is chosen we are releasing indoctrinated inhumane murderous terrorists into the SL population at large.

If the second is chosen we keep the SL population safe but TEMPORARILY incarcerate 250,000 human beings (now 207,000)

As there are no other choices, the Govt has “NO ALTERNATIVE” but to choose the lesser of the two evils.

Dr P. Jeganathan recognizes this and states “….there is a clear and present danger that a small portion of the refugees might well be hard core LTTE cadres. Since there is larger number of people involved, even a small portion may be a very serious matter”; Mr Nessan Raji has no difficulty in recognising the danger and both are Tamils. Are they less concerned about their own or are they pragmatic and wiling to analyze the facts devoid of emotion? How would you classify them? Heartless, Inhuman or Traitors to the Tamil cause?

Strangely you refuse to acknowledge the danger to the 20,000,000 SL population. Several millions of Tamils and Muslims are included in this population (even if you want to ignore the 70%+ Sinhalese).

Which would you choose the “temporary loss of freedom” of 207,000 or the “Right to Life” of the millions of others?

This is a statement you made in response to a poster’s query
“In fact, it is likely that there are a few ex-LTTE activists among those yet interned.”

Just to refresh your mind of what a “FEW” terrorists can do, please take a look at a “very small sample” of the carnage that they have caused. This is not fiction nor is it conjecture it really happened and can happen again “given the chance”

So what would you suggest? Release rabid murderers into the general populace so that they can surpass their previous deeds? Or weed them out and rehabilitate them first?

The saner choice is clear isn’t it?

June 15, 2006, Anuradapura
LTTE claymore mine attack on a bus murdering 68 passengers and injured at least 60 Most of those killed were children.

18 Sep 99, Ampara,
LTTE attacked three villages Punchi Seegiriya, Kalpengala and Bedirekka off Ampara. During the attack at least 58 Sinhalese villagers, including 17 women, 2 pregnant mothers and 14 children, were hacked to death with machetes and knives by LTTE terrorists. The victims were dragged from their sleep and butchered. Those who tried to seek refuge in the nearby dense jungles were chased and killed. Some of the villagers who fled their burning homes as gunmen fired at them were chased and hacked to death in rice fields. Others were killed as they slept.

05 Mar 98, Maradana,
A mini bus packed with explosives was exploded outside a school by Tamil Tiger terrorist on a suicide mission killing 34 civilians, including two school children. Over 300 were wounded.

31 Jan 96
Colombo Fort, Central Bank.
A lorry laden with explosives, exploded by a LTTE suicide killer at the Central Bank whilst two other LTTE cadres fired at the people. A total of 86 people were killed and 1,338 injured. All buildings on either side of the Janadhipathi Mawatha including Central Bank, Ceylinco, American Express, ABN Bank, Air Lanka, etc, were damaged.

July 24, 1996
Dehiwala train bombing 64 Dead, hundreds injured

May 25, 1995
Kallarawa massacre, Eastern Province, 42 dead, many more injured

15 Oct 92
Palliyagodella, Ahamedpura, Abapura, Pamburana, Polonaruwa.
About 200-300 armed terrorists attacked the Muslim villages and had shot and hacked to death a total of 172 civilians. (171 of them were Muslims) 12 Policemen and 08 Soldiers. And a total of 83 others were injured.

21 June 1990
62 Muslims were hacked to death at Nintavur in the Ampara District

5th Aug 1990
140 Muslims were murdered and about 66 injured while at prayer in the Meera Jumma and Hussainiya Mosques at Kathankudy, Batticaloa District

6 Aug 1990
40 Muslims were murdered at Akkarapattu in the Ampara District and 127 Muslims were murdered at the Saddam Hussein Village, Poovaikadu and Kalavaichanai near Eravur

09 Oct 88
Mahakongaskada, Medavachchiya.
Armed terrorists shot dead 44 Sinhalese villagers and set fire to 11 houses.

17 Apr 87
Habarana Rd.Trincoamlee.
Armed terrorists shot dead 127 Sinhalese including 31 police and Security Forces personnel who were traveling in buses to Trincomalee.

21 Apr 87
Central Bus Stand, Pettah.
Terrorists bomb explosion killed 110 civilians, 2 Policemen and an Army soldier 298 others were injured.

14 May 85, Anuradhapura
Armed terrorists invaded the town and shot dead 150 civilians in the religious compound. Many Buddhist monks were among the dead. This includes pilgrims who were inside the sacred Sri Maha Bodhi premises.

November 30, 1984
Kent and Dollar Farm massacres, Mullaitivu, 62 dead

You say “I am as sceptical about the so-called facts in Jane’s Weekly as the ‘facts’ set out by the Off the Cuff.”

Your skepticism does not detract in anyway from the reputation that Jane’s Defense magazine has built up over the years throughout the world. It is looked upon as the leader in its field. Similarly choosing an innocuous Ministry that you headed in 1991 will not disprove the state of affairs that existed in 1947 over four decades previously.

You say “Thesawalamai requires that if you’re selling your land, you should first offer it at the market price to your family members but if they are not interested you can sell it to outsiders irrespective of ethnicity.”

What is the requirement to compel by “LAW” your own family to offer it to the family first, if it’s to be offered at market value? Shouldn’t that have come naturally? Is there some other reason underneath it all?

You say “Off the Cuff is unwilling to accept the fact that there is surfeit of accumulated, justified anger and bitterness among Tamils, especially among the internees.”

You are misrepresenting me. Of course I accept that there is bitterness amongst the IDP’s for the loss of freedom. I have always stated that they should be made as comfortable as possible to alleviate some of that bitterness. But what I don’t see is why you try to play down the existence of Hardcore Terrorists amongst them who posses a LIFE THREATENING danger to the 20,000,000 population. Temporary loss of freedom is not “Life Threatening”

Off the Cuff said,

October 29, 2009 @ 1:11 am

Dear Wijayapala,

My objective was to arrive at a reasonably accurate figure of the Terrorists amongst the bona fide Civilians. The base I started with is the actual IDP population within the Manik farm not hearsay figures such as 280,000. I had left out 12,000 who were housed elsewhere and those taking treatment from hospitals.

You ask me about casualties during the war. That is relevant if I started with the original population under the LTTE which obviously would have been much higher than the IDP population at the Menik farm. Such population figures are not available and would require conjecture which I avoid.

The figure I arrived at was 15,000 – 16,000 which corresponds to the estimates given by Strategy Page. Approximately11,000 have been apprehended which leaves about 4,000 – 5,000 yet in hiding. Some of them would have escaped through bribery, smuggled via NGO vehicles and other means. I would not hazard a guess about those numbers as they cannot be quantified. But the fact is there are still a significant number of terrorists in hiding.

I believe that they have to be apprehended in order to consolidate a hard fought peace. You may think otherwise, that’s your prerogative.

My post of October 25, 2009 @ 6:07 pm is a reply to your contentions regarding my analysis of Terrorist numbers. I have proved that your contention is incorrect by showing you what other subsidiary conclusions could follow when your contentions are used, such as an implausible birth rate.

Now you ask me another question … “Why don’t you tell us then- what is the proportion of IDPs between the ages of 12 (or 10, I don’t care) and 35?? “

My intent was to prove that your statements about my calculations and your counter calculations were wrong which I have done. But you might be able to arrive at some figure using the last known census figures and population statistics. But reliability of that figure would always be in question.

But I would not agree with your next statement “It is this age group which arguably the LTTE would have had the most influence over the last two decades.”

These are my reasons.
Initially, LTTE would have consisted with youth 18 – 30 years mainly.
This core group dominated the Vanni population for 27 years.
New born at the commencement of their rule would now be 27 years old and the core would be 57 years old. This means that the population between 10 and 57 will have a preponderance of ideological converts to LTTE thinking.

Your next statement ….“My suspicion is that compared with the Sri Lankan general population, you will find a disproportionate number of children under 12 and adults over 35, courtesy of the LTTE and its use of the middle group as cannon fodder.”….
is of course unquestionably true and I am in agreement with it but I tend to think that the lower age limit would be around 10 years

wijayapala said,

October 29, 2009 @ 8:38 am

Off the cuff,

The figure I arrived at was 15,000 – 16,000 which corresponds to the estimates given by Strategy Page. Approximately11,000 have been apprehended which leaves about 4,000 – 5,000 yet in hiding.

What happened to your 62,000 figure?

About the police claiming 20,000 Tigers escaped- Take a look at this

Off the Cuff said,

October 29, 2009 @ 1:28 pm

Dear Wjayapala,

That’s your problem.

You don’t read before making your posts

Read the thread again, then you will realize

Good luck

Disgusted said,

October 29, 2009 @ 3:36 pm

Off the Cuff,
You have misquoted Dr. Pradeep Jeganathan. TWICE in one post.

Yes, he said, “….there is a clear and present danger that a small portion of the refugees might well be hard core LTTE cadres. Since there is larger number of people involved, even a small portion may be a very serious matter”. However the “serious matter” he referred to does not concern the threat of violence these cadres pose to the general population, as you claim.

He was talking about the “serious matter” of the RIGHTS of those cadres. Remember those? That was the “clear and present danger” he meant: the danger that they would be denied their legal rights upon capture. If I may quote what he says a few lines later, “If however, a person is a hard core LTTE cadre, and they remain under-cover, and if they are detected by trained, Tamil intelligence officials, they will be subject to arrest and counter-terror interrogations. It is most important to worry about the human rights of those citizens, even though very small in number, and try to ensure that they are subject to a transperent legal process…”.

He wrote that piece in April, before the end of the war.

Perhaps he may wish to clarify his statement himself.
http://www.pjeganathan.org/south-paw/2009/4/22/a-reply-to-an-american-and-an-outsider.html

If a Tamil person actually believes that 200,000 Tamil civilians should be incarcerated because of the security concerns posed by a few LTTE cadres (as you are claiming that they do), then such people are either living deep in the government’s pockets, or are madmen. Even the most Tiger-hating Tamil person will not hold that view.

It isn’t enough that Tamils are being denied their rights in Sri Lanka, you must also exploit the words of Tamil intellectuals to suit your own ideological needs when they do manage to find a platform to speak for truth and justice?

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 29, 2009 @ 7:52 pm

What’s rather interesting here is not what Pradeep J. did or did not say. What’s really interesting is the sweeping generalization that “Disgusted” makes, dictating how Tamils should or should not think. To quote: “If a Tamil person actually believes that 200,000 Tamil civilians should be incarcerated because of the security concerns posed by a few LTTE cadres (as you are claiming that they do), then such people are either living deep in the government’s pockets, or are madmen. Even the most Tiger-hating Tamil person will not hold that view.”

In one deft move, “Disgusted” sets the stage for Pradeep J. to be branded a disgusting “traitor” should he actually dare to air a contrary opinion, while simultaneously inviting him to air his views. I am, frankly, somewhat disgusted at such a ploy.

Interestingly, this is the very kind of thinking that Pradeep J. has criticized in his latest article. (http://www.pjeganathan.org/south-paw/2009/9/27/sri-lanka-whats-left-of-the-national-question.html)

Disgusted, I know you’re no stranger to sweeping generalizations, having seen you make plenty of breathtaking ones in the last discussion I had with you. Yet, you always do manage to surpass yourself. Should I also mention that inherent in your opinion on how Tamils ought to think, is also the racial prejudice that I’ve tried to draw your attention to on many occasions? Guess I shouldn’t bother, since it’s obviously been to no avail so far.

Off the Cuff said,

October 29, 2009 @ 10:24 pm

Dear Disgusted,

I have quoted Dr Pradeep Jeganathan in this thread over three weeks ago (not only in the current post) and the complete paragraph is quoted there. I read his blog and have also posted in it and I am fully aware that he is a registered contributor to GV and that he does read GV and join in the discussions.

First let me make you aware of what I think of him. From his writings I judge him to be an intellectual that commands respect from any Sri Lankan, irrespective of ethnicity. To you he is only a fellow Tamil, to me he is a fellow Sri Lankan and his ethnicity is irrelevant. He has balanced views unlike those other intellectuals who look only through coloured glasses. As such when he criticizes even his foes would be forced to think, as he does not criticize to score points in a debate but in all honesty, by dissecting facts dispassionately.

Now to answer your charge of misquoting.
The relevant passage from his blog was reproduced to show that he “recognizes the existence of Hardcore LTTE cadres within the IDP population”. This fact is consistently ignored or downplayed by other writers who write in inflammatory language.

In support of my argument I also quoted another Tamil who “HAS ACCESS” to the IDP camps, Mr. Nessan Shanker Raji who confirms Mr. Jeganathan’s observation. Neither you nor I have such First hand knowledge as Mr Raji.

Hence I used Dr. Jeganathan’s statement “ONLY” to prove the existence of Hardcore core LTTE cadres within the IDP population that is consistently being down played by most Tamil writers. It was not used to present my argument about the security threat that the SL population would face if these trained, hardcore, inhuman, murderers are enlarged amongst the General Population.

However I suspect that the “Tone” of Dr Jeganathan’s complete post indicates that he did not idly use the following phrase “….since there is a clear and present danger that a small portion of the refugees might well be hard core LTTE cadres” in it. Why does he use it with reference to “Hardcore” cadres and not to other LTTE cadres? Whatever the intent is, my argument about the security risk is not based on the matters discussed in this paragraph.

Please note that I do not make any ethnic distinction of the General Population which is 20,000,000+.

Your attempted mud slinging at Mr. Raji is deplorable, apparently that is what you attempt in one but the penultimate paragraph to take away his credibility. Mr Raji formerly fought for Eelam and risked his life for it. He is not just an armchair critic.

I hope you will keep the observations of Dr P. Jeganathan in mind when you post in the future.

My discussion with Dr. Nessaiah began when I noticed the incorrect IDP figures, the inflammatory language and the subtle demonizing of the Sinhalese that’s used in this article. I have appealed to his humanity to tone down the language used as that would not help in bridge building.

The balanced views and the language used by Dr Jeganathan is an exemplary example of how anyone who is interested in bridge building and Peace within SL at heart should behave.

What SL needs is more people of the caliber of Dr. P. Jeganathan to take the lead in reconciliation and bridge building. Unfortunately there is a dearth of such people.

Here are some gems from his post which was written in reply to an American named Jonathan who posted on the New York Times. I reproduce them without comment.

“there is not, on my view, at this juncture, a genocide of Tamils in Sri Lanka or a will for such a project within the ranks of the GoSL. Nevertheless, this claim is made constantly,”

The LTTE, then as they lost conventional ‘set-piece’ battles with the military, and lost more territory pulled back into this very ‘no fire zone,’ taking civilians with them, and called for a ceasefire. Perhaps an astute military tactic, since the LTTE has always managed to re-group, re- recruit and re-arm during previous ceasefires, but indescribably inhumane. (I am yet to see the New York Times or the BBC really get this point, even though it’s easy to work out!)”

“While it is certainly true that the GoSL has shelled this zone several times, I am persuaded by a close reading of events, that considerable care was exercised, to minimize civilian casualties, after frontlines moved to the edge of this zone”

“Nevertheless many many civilians have died, I would say approximately 3000, at the hands of GoSL. This is an enormous tragedy, but there is little evidence of what might be called callous disregard for human life.”

“It has also been confirmed that the LTTE was coercively, with beatings and shootings and even suicide bombers that mingled with fleeing people, prevented an exodus from the battle zone, which they had created from the ‘no fire’ zone.”

“All through this time, the GoSL, through an arrangement with ICRC, provided food via ships to the corralled, trapped people, even though much of the food was confiscated by LTTE cadres for their own use.”

“all medical service personnel inside that zone are employees of the GoSL health services, and have been trained in Sri Lankan universities, which charge no fees. None of this ever really makes the NYT or the BBC”

“Given that the GoSL realized they were at an impasse, after two, 2-day pauses in military action had failed to see any movement of civilians out of the battle zone, they pursued a daring operation.”

“the 58 division, (in a coordinated operation with the 53 division which made a feint to the south, foxing the LTTE), exploded a section of the long earth bund the LTTE had built on the edge of the no-fire zone, and went in, securing a strip of land across it, right to the beach, and calling with loud hailers for people to come through. As they held the Tigers at bay, thousands poured out. As of this moment, more than 60,000 people have come through”

“It is important to understand that this military operation, and others previously, have cost many many lives of GoSL forces, even though casualty numbers are censored. These soldiers also have young wives and children, mothers and fathers.”

“The IDP camps, where displaced are being sheltered, are not ‘concentration camps.’ There are, however, serious questions about the constitutional right of free movement being restricted, until an ‘identification and registration’ process is completed, and I expect the Supreme Court to be moved on this matter soon.”

“The Court has intervened several times earlier in relation to GoSL counter-terror policies and process, finding some un-constitutional and others not.”

“Freedom of movement in the country is already restricted, and is subject to identification checks. This happens to you at an airport all the time, for example, but there are lots of questions that are raised when it happens within your country of citizenship.”

“if a person does admit to being such a cadre, but asserts that s/he no longer wishes to follow the LTTE, that person will be sent to a rehabilitation camp. There is one up and running in Ambepussa and there do not seem to be any coercive elements involved.”

“If however, a person is a hard core LTTE cadre, and they remain under-cover, and if they are detected by trained, Tamil intelligence officials, they will be subject to arrest and counter-terror interrogations.”

“It is most important to worry about the human rights of those citizens, even though very small in number, and try to ensure that they are subject to a transperent legal process,”

“but it really is a grotesque misunderstanding to call the sum of these camps ‘concentration camps,’ in comparison to Nazi camps, which were about mass labour and mass extermination”

“There are several small and large non-profit, non-governmental Sri Lankan groups and agencies that are actively supporting the people in these camps, while all this tub thumping about genocide and extermination is going on.”

“But the “real need,” as my colleague Malathi de Alwis recently said in the Guardian: “is for the formulation of a set of political proposals that will be acceptable to democratic elements in all three communities – Sinhala, Tamil and Muslim.” This won’t happen this week or next, but with relative peace, which now seems on the horizen, there is every chance I will see it before I die.”

Heshan said,

October 29, 2009 @ 11:41 pm

“Off the Cuff,
You have misquoted Dr. Pradeep Jeganathan. TWICE in one post.”

He has misquoted/distorted/exaggerated a lot more… UN reports on language (the existence of which I could not establish), IDP statistics, LTTE cadre strength, etc. etc.

I point out the above merely for the sake of argumentation.

Off the Cuff said,

October 30, 2009 @ 12:41 am

Dear Disgusted,

This is a continuation of my post to you above (http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/17/the-internment-%e2%80%93-a-collective-punishment/comment-page-3/#comment-10280 ) in order to clear an important point you raise in yours.

You state “…..security concerns posed by a few LTTE cadres…”

A “FEW” LTTE Cadres?…..at it again. Down playing the numbers, why?

You have obviously read my response to Dr. DN at
(http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/17/the-internment-%e2%80%93-a-collective-punishment/comment-page-3/#comment-10255)

There are 14 Terror attacks listed at the tail end of that post. All of them were perpetrated by the so called “FEW” terror cadres. In some cases not a single terrorist attacker got even injured as they set off TIME BOMBS left in Public Transport.

The numbers that died and got injured are not “FEW”.
The loss of property and economic resources was not “FEW”
The perpetrators were “FEW”
The “FEW” who are now hiding amongst the Tamil civilians.

A person living insulated from this kind of threat would not understand what it means. The sample provided is a very minute sample from what actually took place. They are not fabrications.

Are you advocating that the SL govt should not do what it has to do to protect the overwhelming majority of the SL populace and allow people moving about attending to their normal business be blown to bits? Children, Pregnant women, Mothers, Fathers, Tamils, Moors, Sinhalese, Malays, Eurasians and other minorities included?

Let me quote Dr Jeganathan again about LTTE activity in the camps
“Yes, there is a serious, real issue of LTTE activity in camps. I can not give you a source, you can take my word for it or not. It is not simple paranoia.”

Your efforts are better spent if you can convince those in hiding to give themselves up and stop using the civilian shield. That would definitely speed up the release of the IDP’s

Devanesan Nesiah said,

October 30, 2009 @ 10:27 am

Dear Somewhatdisgusted/Off the Cuff,

Good question from Somewhatdisgusted. Instead of blaming the colonial government or earlier generation of one ethnic group or another for past sins, we need to cure present ills and to put in safeguards to ensure that such ills will not reoccur in the future. The recruitment of Tamil speakers over the past five decades has led to the present language crisis that affects the rights of a quarter of the population of our island. We need a minimum levels of Sinhala/ Tamil and even English language proficiency throughout the island, even if the main language of administration in that office is either Sinhala or Tamil. In the bi-lingual AGA division (including several in the Eastern, Uva and Central Provinces, and in Colombo and Puttalam districts) both Sinhlala and Tamil should be the languages of administration. The state has already expected much of this principle, though not in practice, and some areas are already recognised as bi-lingual. More areas need to be so recognised and further:

1)As an interim measure there should be special recruitment and posting of Tamil speakers in sufficient numbers in to some of the public services to quickly overcome the present crisis

2) As a supplementary interim measure, there should be special recruitment ans posting of translators in adequate numbers.

3) There should be institutional reform and regulation that future recruitment and posting will be non- discriminatory and balanced, taking in to account the linguistic make up of the population served by each public office.

4) There should be an island wide network of second and third language training with adequate incentives for those that gain proficiency

5) Teach all three languages in early levels in all the schools throughout the island, with due incentives (eg. preferences in recruitment to employment and university admissions) to those who gain second and third language proficiency

Passing on to what Off the Cuff has posted, there is no sense in any ‘admission’ regarding the faults of the colonial administration. As an example, H.L Dowbiggin, then IGP, unambiguously articulated ‘divide and rule’ thinking; but from their perspective ‘divide and rule’ discrimination is not a fault but an effective strategy to advance British national interests. None of us Sri Lankan’s need to feel guilty on that score. Of far greater concern to us should be the various kinds of discrimination practised by our own governments over the decades against large sections of our own people. It is these that loyal Sri Lankan’s need to shamefully admit as contrary to our collective national interests, to condemn and to combat.

I joined the public service in 1959, by which time there had already been 9 years of post-independence recruitment in to the public services. Apart from 9 years in Northern and Eastern districts and 6 years on study leave overseas, I served 21 years in various government offices in Colombo and in the Hill Country before I retired in 1995. All of those offices served populations that included very large Tamil speaking segments. Every office that I have served in those 21 years was predominantly Sinhalese in staffing and in language of administration. This is clear evidence of the continuing linguistic discrimination and ethnically discriminatory recruitment practised to the detriment of over a quarter of our citizens.

Internment is an extension of this discrimination. It does not protect 20 million Sri Lankan’s but endangers their future by treating a large section of them as sub-human contributing to the already existing sense of alienation of millions of our people on account of earlier acts of discrimination and continuing political marginalisation. If the condition in the camps are good, what is need to isolate the internees from the media, civil society, UN and international agencies? But my main objection is not to the conditions in the camps but to the lawlessness and cruelty of internment.

The brutality of the LTTE is well known and many details including several not listed by Off the Cuff were set out in public reports and statements that I have signed over the years. These include condemnation of the eviction by the LTTE of entire Muslim population of the North in 1990 as well as the arrest by the LTTE a few month earlier of around 30 Muslims from Jaffna who subsequently disappeared. Further, why exclude from the list the greatest LTTE crime of all- the murder in cold blood of around 500 Sinhalese and Muslim policeman after they surrendered? But those reports and statements that I signed also list atrocities against Tamils by sections of the armed forces and for that reason may not be of interest of Off the Cuff. The racist bias of Off the Cuff is evident from the fact that one not of many atrocities against Tamils are included in the list posted.

I’m not interested in either defending or preserving Thesawalamai. I refer to it only to dismiss a particular racist myth concerning it that Off the Cuff had articulated.

Disgusted said,

October 30, 2009 @ 2:33 pm

Off the Cuff,
You said “Hence I used Dr. Jeganathan’s statement ‘ONLY’ to prove the existence of Hardcore core LTTE cadres within the IDP population that is consistently being down played by most Tamil writers. ”

Really? Let me quote the section in which you mention Dr Jeganathan’s quote:

“1. Internment of ANY human being without just cause is WRONG
2. The lives of the General population consisting of Tamils, Muslims, Sinhalese and other minority groups take precedence over anything else

In order to emphasize the second point I remind you of the following

Dr. Pradeep Jeganathan, a Tamil social anthropologist who has studied violence and its aftermath in SL for 15 years recognizes the danger and he states thus.

‘I have written about this several times, questioning it, but the matter is correctly not academic, as such, since there is a clear and present danger that a small portion of the refugees might well be hard core LTTE cadres. Since there is larger number of people involved, even a small portion may be a very serious matter.’”

My comment on this: Dr Jeganathan’s quote was NOT about the importance of the lives of the General Population, about this taking precedence over all else. It was about the importance of ensuring the rights of what he refers to as the ‘hard-core LTTE cadres”.

Then you talk about the “Tone” of Dr Jeganathan’s complete post”, that “he did not idly use the following phrase ‘….since there is a clear and present danger that a small portion of the refugees might well be hard core LTTE cadres’ in it.’”

I would recommend that you don’t talk about the ‘tone’ of someone’s message without first making sure that you have correctly comprehended the basic meaning of what he said. As to why he used the term “hard core” to refer to some cadres and not to all, you would know the answer to that if you would only read his article attentively–cos he does define his usage of the term.

I have not defamed Mr Raji, whoever he may be. I DO NOT KNOW whether he has EVER SAID that 200,000 Tamil civilians should be incarcerated because of the security concerns posed by a few LTTE cadres. So how does the question of my defaming him arise?

Disgusted said,

October 30, 2009 @ 9:09 pm

Somewhat Disgusted,
Find me a Tamil person who says that 200,000 Tamil civilians should be incarcerated because of the security concerns posed by a few LTTE cadres. Then prove he or she is not in the pocket of the government and not a madman. Until you do that, don’t accuse me of prejudice.

You would like to make my comment appear nationalistic and race-based. My comment was based on the assumption that Sri Lankan Tamils are very aware of the suffering that Tamils have undergone these many decades, having a degree of awareness that no other community can claim because they have been outside those networks of information, thanks to state control of information all these decades. As such, they will not be liable to think that innocent Tamils should bear any more suffering. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with what they know.

Nor am I setting the stage for Pradeep Jeganathan to say anything that would prove him a traitor. I am utterly confident he will not say such a thing. Why? Because he has consistently spoken of radical democratic and democratic politics. Anyone who cherishes human rights will not (and cannot) ideologically view human beings (Tamil or not) in an instrumentalist way–where some people’s inalienable rights can be sacrificed to serve the security of others.

In thinking it even remotely possible that Jeganathan would hold that view, you show how little you understand about democratic politics.

But as one sees only too often, the ignorant seldom have any problem touting the superiority of their intelligence to others.

Off the Cuff said,

October 30, 2009 @ 11:29 pm

Dear Disgusted,

Good diversionary tactic but it wont work

You claim that you don’t know who Mr. Nesan Shankar Raji is and you join a discussion without reading the complete thread. Please read my initial post on this thread. Then you will know who he is.

Then you sow doubt about what he said, don’t you have access to the Internet?

He is a Tamil who had defended the internment of IDPs.

This is what you say about people like that in your post in question

“If a Tamil person actually believes that 200,000 Tamil civilians should be incarcerated because of the security concerns posed by a few LTTE cadres (as you are claiming that they do), then such people are either living deep in the government’s pockets, or are madmen. Even the most Tiger-hating Tamil person will not hold that view.”

In affect you said the Mr. Nesan Shankar Raji is “living deep in the government’s pockets, or are madmen”. I don’t know about you, but that is defamation in my book. I believe that the GV readership would think the same.

My argument about the necessity to weed out Hardcore terrorists from the IDP population rests “ONLY ON ONE FACT” which is the “Presence” of Hardcore Terrorists amongst them. I have used statements that confirm this FACT.

That they are indeed present has been confirmed by Dr. P Jeganathan and Mr. Nesan Shankar Raji. Both of them are Tamils. In fact Dr. Jeganathan has written about LTTE activity within the camps a second time in another post. I mentioned that in my second post to you.

You may call the quotes anything you wish but to prove me wrong you need to prove that the people who I quoted DENIES the existence of LTTE within the IDP’s. This is something you can’t do without insulting both people and I have proven my point.

There are many others who say the same thing. Quoting anyone else but a Tamil won’t carry much weight with some people here. Hence I chose quotes from Tamils that I am aware of.

Releasing indoctrinated Hardcore Terrorists who have murdered innocent people by hacking, shooting and exploding them to bits into the General population WILL pose a danger to the population. This is a FACT that is beyond argument. A fact that is supported by the terrorist’s actions a small sample of which I have given. To say otherwise is like saying that enlarging rabid dogs within a population is not dangerous.

So break my argument. Prove that there are no Terrorists within the IDP population

Good Luck

Off the Cuff said,

October 31, 2009 @ 12:22 am

Dear Heshan,

Your post of October 29, 2009 @ 11:41 pm refers (http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/17/the-internment-%e2%80%93-a-collective-punishment/comment-page-3/#comment-10285 )

Quote
“He has misquoted/distorted/exaggerated a lot more… UN reports on language (the existence of which I could not establish), IDP statistics, LTTE cadre strength, etc. etc.
I point out the above merely for the sake of argumentation.
Unquote

I usually don’t respond to your posts as they are a load of BS

You are the guy who said that the Japanese can speak English well and I have lived in Japan for a very long time and know first hand that it’s a load of BS. Many of the GV readers who have been to Japan will also know this. Japanese are very polite people and if you ask them directions to go somewhere they will come with you and show how to go as they cant speak English.

You believe that you are omniscient. Probably you are. But this time you have accused me of lying, distorting, exaggerating, and misquoting …..even UN reports on language.

You have Challenged my Honour. I hope you have the courage of your infallible knowledge to accept the challenge I am now throwing at you.

Ok here is the deal and the Challenge.

If I post the link to what you claim is a “NON EXISTENT” UN report which I quoted on the Mother Tongue issue will you promise not to post on GV ever again?

This means you will voluntarily exile yourself from ever writing on GV again. Are you game to accept?

If you are not game to do that please refrain from Posting your BS and disrupting serious discussions that are taking place on GV.

For GV readers who are interested, this is the post that Heshan is referring to
http://www.groundviews.org/2009/10/13/even-post-war-discrimination-runs-deep-in-sri-lanka/#comment-9983

The Heading used is
The use of English (Universal Language?)
Posted on October 16, 2009 @ 9:18 pm

Heshan said,

October 31, 2009 @ 3:07 am

@Off the Cuff:

This is from another person who lives in Japan:

“Most Japanese people can read English easily. The problem with speaking comes from the educational system in Japan. While most Japanese have at least four years of English in school, they can only speak with great difficulty. Generally in English classes you have a Japanese teacher teaching broken English. They try to have an English teaching assistant, from programs such as JET, help the Japanese teacher. During this time, most of the learning is rote memorization of word lists, grammar, and such. Speaking is a very small aspect of the education.”

http://www.antimoon.com/forum/t12568-0.htm

So you are correct in saying that most Japanese cannot speak English well. However, it has to do with the nature of the Japanese language itself and nothing to do with the so-called “superiority of the mother tongue.” These are your words:

“Education in the following countries are not based on the use of English. The advancement achieved by these countries is sufficient proof if proof is needed. Studies show that we learn better in our mother tongue.”

What you failed to do is give reasons for the “advancement achieved these countries.” One such reason is the existence of open-market economies. Japan has very few natural resources, in which case trade is essential. Until 2007, the USA was Japan’s biggest trade partner. If the Japanese did not have a good grasp of English, such trade would be extremely difficult. At the university where I am employed, 95% of the Japanese students have selected business studies as their course. Obviously, they have chosen to study business in the States to improve their English abilities.

Secondly, when you say “education is not based on the use of English”, you are making a broad generalization that, upon closer analysis, falls apart. The amount of English one needs to succeed will depend upon his chosen profession. If one hopes to succeed in business, for example, English is indispensable. However, if one wishes to become an accountant, less English is necessary. At my university, those pursuing an advanced degree in mathematics must be competent in at least one language besides English and demonstrate proficiency. The same holds for those pursuing advanced degrees in religion and philosophy. It is my understanding that in American high schools, a few years of a foreign language is required. I already pointed out that Europeans are fluent in 3 or 4 languages, not necessarily English. Even in SL, the entire university curriculum is in English. All of this is in direct contradiction to your assertion that “studies show we learn better in our mother tongue.” I already disproved the so-called “UN study” that you gave. However, when I asked for you the link to that study, you did not give it. Therefore, I reserve the right to consider such a study “non-existent.” And if you do plan to prove its existence, I suggest you give a direct link.

Finally I would point that the “”advancement achieved in these countries” has very little to do with the use of the mother tongue. It has more to do with open-market economic policies, industrialization, and, in general, policies that create, promote, and sustain self-sufficiency. For example, India would be nowhere today if it did not embrace federalism.

You have lost this argument a long time ago, but if you wish to pursue it further, go right ahead.

Cheers.

Heshan said,

October 31, 2009 @ 3:18 am

“Most Japanese people can read English easily.”

I forgot to mention that the above statement implies Japanese have an excellent understanding of English. Since 2005, the Japanese government has made 8 years of English education mandatory in the primary schools; therefore, improvement in speaking is very likely to occur in the next decade. For those who are truly interested in this topic, I would point out that the only reason for difficulty in speaking is due to the nature of the Japanese language itself, which is so vastly different to English in terms of phonetics, pronunciation, etc. It has nothing to do with lack of investment in English education, on the part of the Japanese government.

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 31, 2009 @ 4:57 am

Disgusted >>

No one will say that it’s “right” to intern IDPs. Not even your average dastardly “Sinhalese”. What they will say is it might be “necessary”.

What Pradeep J. acknowledged/observed was the “clear and present danger” posed by these cadres. As an academic, and having some understanding of the complexity of the problem, he did not proceed to pass moral judgement on the issue, which is better left to people with black & white views of the world, such as yourself.

Disgusted said,

October 31, 2009 @ 8:54 am

Off the Cuff,
I am using a diversionary tactic? You should know–you are the master of diversion.

I only entered this thread to critique your citing of Dr. Pradeep Jeganathan. To check whether I have done so, readers only have to go to his original words to check what he said, and decide for themselves if his message is consonant with your interpretation of it.

You did not use Jeganathan’s quote only to prove that there is LTTE activity in the camps, but to suggest that he thinks that the rights of the general population take priority over that of the LTTE cadres–as I have shown by quoting your claim. You very conveniently ignore that criticism.

As I have shown, your definition of “danger” is not the “danger” to which Jeganathan refers, which is that of the legal rights of LTTE hard core cadres who are captured.

Instead of dealing with that, you want to divert this discussion into other areas–for eg, claiming that I defamed Nesan Shankar Raji, and wanting me to engage with the issue of LTTE cadres in the IDP camps. That’s diversion, no?

You are remarkably silly. You don’t need to quote big names to prove that there are Tigers existing among the civilian population. Most people would agree with that, given the way the war ended with civilians and Tigers mingling together. Even I have said so.

However, I don’t think there is any significant amount there now. I’m sure most of them have left the camp by bribing the army. Pathmanathan was still at large then and he had his hands on LTTE funds. You think that money wasn’t used to get hard core uncaptured cadres out of the camps and out of the country?

You said: “Releasing indoctrinated Hardcore Terrorists who have murdered innocent people by hacking, shooting and exploding them to bits into the General population WILL pose a danger to the population. This is a FACT that is beyond argument. A fact that is supported by the terrorist’s actions a small sample of which I have given. To say otherwise is like saying that enlarging rabid dogs within a population is not dangerous.”

No, it is not a fact beyond argument. The Tigers who committed all those violent acts you cite are not the same Tigers who are in the camps. They have been disarmed. They are without their leaders. If the SL army cannot deal with the threat posed by these people, they should be ashamed of themselves. Isn’t this the greatest army in the world, the only one which has apparently defeated a guerilla force. Even better than the US forces!

As for Nesan Shankar Ravi, he is an anti-LTTE politician, and from what I gather from the Internet, more concerned about ending the reign of the LTTE than about protecting Tamil civilians’ rights. You can gauge the reliability of his observations from what he says here, a part of that very same statement that you mention but which you left out in your quote:

“As far as the now defunct LTTE is concerned we (EROS) are dealing with two fundamental issues here. Firstly the LTTE were victoriously militarily defeated by the Sri Lankan Armed Forces in May 2009 leading to the death of their leader Prabhakaran which was much to the relief and joy of the Sri Lankan Tamil Diaspora who are now experiencing the euphoria and meaning of true liberation from the clutches of the Tamil Tigers after nearly 3 decades.”

Did we not see Tiger flags aplenty in protests by the Tamil Diaspora in Canada, UK and Europe? I don’t recall seeing “euphoria”, do you? They were demanding to know the location of their relatives. Tamils across the world, whether they were pro or anti LTTE, were concerned about what the end of the war would mean for the treatment of Tamils in Sri Lanka.

I think you can see how much we can rely on Nesan Shankar Raji for truth. I don’t know what you mean about him risking his life fighting for Eelam, and not being an armchair critic. Nesan Shankar Raji is not his father, aka as Shankar Rajee, a founder-member of EROS, who died in 2005. The one you quote is based in London. He says in the statement that he visited the camps in April, before the end of the war. He is an EROS leader. I believe EROS is part of EPDP, which is allied to UPFA and the SL government.

Disgusted said,

October 31, 2009 @ 9:50 am

Somewhat Disgusted,
You said: “What Pradeep J. acknowledged/observed was the ‘clear and present danger’ posed by these cadres. As an academic, and having some understanding of the complexity of the problem, he did not proceed to pass moral judgement on the issue, which is better left to people with black & white views of the world, such as yourself.”

No, he was not referring to the security danger posed by these cadres. This is very obvious in the context of what he was talking about, which was about the clear and present danger to the possible infringement of the human rights of these cadres, “although” as he says these “hard core cadres” may be “very small in number”. He does not talk about the clear and present danger posed “by” these cadres, but the danger to them.

Pradeep Jeganathan speaks against Tamil nationalism from the perspective of practising radical democratic politics. That is an ethical stand. All political positions emerge from a core of ethics. You only think that he doesn’t have a black and white view of the world because he is not for separation–which is your position. Anyone who doesn’t think like you is seen as biased, prejudiced, racist, extreme. Guess what? Neither am I an Eelamist–though I do think that every group in Sri Lanka has a right to self-determination, and that negotiations with other groups in power cannot be conducted without that implicit recognition.

Your other comment is that “No one will say that it’s ‘right’ to intern IDPs. Not even your average dastardly ‘Sinhalese’. What they will say is it might be ‘necessary’.”

To say that something is “necessary” is to accept it as “right”, as morally befitting that context. Maybe they don’t think it is generally right to intern IDPs, but they do think it is “right” in the SL context–and from what I gather, “right” because it protects the rest of the general population. In terms of equal citizenship rights, it is not only NOT RIGHT, it is unconstitutional. We have had this conversation before. From where do we decide that it is “necessary” to intern the IDPs? From the viewpoint that the rights of those interned is not as compelling as the rights of other Sri Lankans. Why do you find it “necessary” to place these citizens in the proximity of Tiger cadres who you suspect to be dangerous? Are you not using them as a shield. Why is it wrong when the Tigers did that, but not wrong when your Sinhalese-dominated government does that?

If you do hold this view, I would recommend you reconsider your opinion of yourself as not being one of the “average dastardly ‘Sinhalese’ “.

Heshan said,

October 31, 2009 @ 10:11 am

“No one will say that it’s “right” to intern IDPs. Not even your average dastardly “Sinhalese”. What they will say is it might be “necessary”.”

In other words, you’re saying its a necessary evil. Of course, this is debatable.

(1) The camps are funded by foreign dollars

(2) Holding 280,000 people to weed out 5000 is rather silly

(3) The entire Wanni population supported the LTTE at some point or another, either voluntarily or otherwise

(4) The media have no free access to the camps

(5) Opposition parliamentarians do not have free access to the camps

(6) 20,000 LTTE members have left the camps by bribing SLA and police officers

(7) Most of the information given on weapons caches, etc. was given by the 10,000 LTTE who voluntarily surrendered

(8) The interrogation methods themselves are questionable

Now I would ask, are the camps necessary?

Off the Cuff said,

October 31, 2009 @ 10:12 am

Dear Heshan,

The Challenge I threw at you is due to your statements and accusations about my Honour.

It looks like you are too yellow to accept. You are a Coward who likes to disrupt but backs off when cornered.

You said the UN report that I quoted does not exist and that it’s a lie
Now take up the challenge I gave you and I will prove its existence.

Don’t talk about things that you don’t know with apparent authority.

Japanese grammar is very close to Sinhala and in fact they use identical verb combinations as in Sinhala
e.g. Sinhala “Ahala Balamu” = Japanese “Keethe Mimus”

The difficulty the Japanese have is in pronunciation of the “R” and the “L” just like the Sinhalese difficulty with “P” and “F”

That does not translate to difficulties in speaking English for the Sinhalese

Taking up the Challenge or too cowardly to do so?

Off the Cuff said,

October 31, 2009 @ 11:55 am

Dear Disgusted,

Your tirade goes back a long way to another thread isn’t it? (http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/17/delusions-of-power-devolution-searching-post%E2%80%93prapa-possibilities/#comment-9817 )

Your ego was hurt when I complimented certain people in the following two paragraphs and left you out

“The discussion on this thread is one of the best I have seen on groundviews so far. I wish that such discussions will overwhelm the slang matches that usually take place on most threads.

Smoulderingjin, somewhatdisgusted and undergroundview please keep it up. I hope that Dr. Pradeep Jeganathan will continue to provide his perspective on what is being discussed. However Suren Raghavan is very conspicuous by his absence in a thread started by himself.”

Your undisguised feelings came out in an outburst in which you said
“At any rate, I don’t appear on your list of those who you felt contributed to productive discussion on the other thread,” ( http://www.groundviews.org/2009/10/12/imagining-the-immediate-impossibilities/#comment-10010 )

I have no doubt that you read this thread and you were waiting to pounce at any opportunity and thought that you had a golden one with me quoting Dr Jeganathan.

Now lets just look at what you write in your latest post

My engagement with Dr. Nesiah is about the Inflammatory Language that he uses the subtle demonizing of the Sinhalese and the half truths such as hearsay IDP figures used to project his views. Read my posts from the beginning to get a better picture.

As the discussion progressed it evolved into whether the continued deprivation of freedom of movement of the “CIVILIAN” IDP’s was justified or not. My views were stated unambiguously and I repeat them below

1. Incarceration of “ANYONE” without just cause is wrong
2. The govt has to protect the entire population that it governs not just a few
3. A government faced with “ONLY” two alternatives which are both bad has to adopt the lesser alternative as it has no other choice.

The above is the basis and gist of my argument about why it’s imperative that ideally “ALL” terrorists within the camp should be identified and the legal processes applied to either rehabilitate and release, jail or hang them (SL does not execute the death penalty though its in the statute books though many have been condemned to death). SL wont be able to achieve the ideal but can approach it.

I have also unequivocally stated that the IDP’s should be provided with ALL possible comforts to ameliorate the current suffering they undergo for it is indeed a suffering to have free movement restricted.

If your interest is in breaking my argument attack the gist of my assertions without going on a wild goose chase in trying to read Dr. Jeganatha’s mind which you seem to think you are an expert at.

I have showed you that whatever Dr Jeganathan meant with the word “danger” my argument does not depend on it.

Continued harping on the word is hence diversionary.

You try to dismiss the real danger by your assertions which are nothing but assertions
e.g. “However, I don’t think there is any significant amount there now. I’m sure most of them have left the camp by bribing the army.”

“think” “sure” those are just empty words that prove nothing.

You cannot belittle the danger that these cadres who most people try to underplay as a “FEW”, pose to the general population. I gave 14 instances of attacks that were perpetrated by these so called “FEW”. Prove me wrong instead of using “EMPTY WORDS”

You say again “No, it is not a fact beyond argument. The Tigers who committed all those violent acts you cite are not the same Tigers who are in the camps. They have been disarmed. They are without their leaders.”

“Disarmed” are you so myopic as to discount the hidden arms and explosives caches which they hid and know where they are hidden? Even yesterday another arms cache was found. Use facts to break my argument not what you want to selectively believe. They are the identical people who perpetrated all those crimes. Their mindset is the same. They are currently caged RABID dogs waiting for their saviors to release them to restart the mayhem (examples cited).

Talking about Mr Raji you seem to know a lot about him that you initially pretended not to know. So being anti LTTE translates to being a traitor in the Tamil cause? He living in the UK he is less qualified to speak for the Tamils than you do while living in Singapore? Read his statement again. He has visited the camps and he gets regular updates about the camps from his cadres that visit the camps regularly. So his information is “FIRST HAND” what is yours?

Sure there were mass protests, fake hunger strikes with hunger strikers eating Big Macs, blocking of Canadian expressways with children in the front the list is long it just goes to prove that the LTTE is alive and kicking overseas. Sure most of the leadership is dead but not impossible to replace. Probably the next leader would be more astute than Prabhakaran.

The female Tiger leader is still living. The organizers are still living, the fund managers and the strong arm collectors are still living, the procurement channels are still mostly intact, the media contacts are still intact to provide the misinformation, the NGO contacts still exists, the money is still available, a few thousand cadres are still living in SL amongst the Civilian IDP’s and arms, explosives and munitions are still hidden on SL soil and you are clamouring for their release before they get caught why?

Break my argument; attack it with facts without going round the Mulberry bush.

SomewhatDisgusted said,

October 31, 2009 @ 7:22 pm

Disgusted >>

You have a very fanciful interpretation of a simple English passage which clearly conveys Pradeep J’s ideas – in which he clearly states that “there is a clear and present danger that a small portion of the refugees might well be hard core LTTE cadres”.

How you twisted up the meaning of that simple idea using some content later on in the passage to mean that the danger was “TO” the cadres, instead of “FROM” the cadres, I cannot understand. I take it you don’t see terrorist cadres themselves as being a very dangerous and rather abnormal bunch who are in need of rehabilitation?

It is not necessary to make an allegorical interpretation of this simple passage like you would perhaps the Bible. The meaning of such a passage should probably not be misunderstood by anyone with a basic working knowledge of English. It appears that you are eager to impose an interpretation that best suits your needs and/or does not collapse your mental model.

There’s not much point in arguing about this. We can leave it to readers to form their own opinion as to what the meaning is. The article in question has been referenced, so they may draw their own conclusions.

As for saying that “To say that something is “necessary” is to accept it as “right”, as morally befitting that context”.

Of course it’s considered to be morally befitting in that context due to “lack of choice”. The premise is that enlarging the Terrorist cadres hidden in the population will once again unleash violence and therefore it is imperative to filter out those cadres. Filtering out those cadres is now possible in a controlled environment within a certain stipulated time frame. In the process of doing so, the rights of the IDPs are trampled upon, no question. But since these IDPs didn’t have the fundamental rights you demand for them now for nearly 30 years (which, strangely enough, I don’t see you throwing a hissy fit about), some people don’t see why it is unreasonable to sort out the issue in the safest way possible, considering the sacrifices made by all parties, within a *finite* time frame.

Now, this is a fairly simple idea which is not necessarily morally invalid if the premise is true. The only issue is that I suspect that the premise that the cadres will pose a huge risk may be false. So instead of talking BS about morality when you don’t have to face the music when bombs start going off, you’ll be better of trying to convince people that the premise that the cadres pose a threat is false.

Disgusted said,

October 31, 2009 @ 9:21 pm

Somewhat Disgusted,

I am not repsonsible for your mistake in thinking that it is a simple English passage. It is not. Also, a sentence, a phrase, does not acquire meaning just from itself. The meaning also accrues from what comes before, ie has set the stage for it, and what comes later, i.e how it is elaborated upon. At no point was Jeganathan speaking of security concerns. The mistake has arisen because for you and Off the Cuff, the phrase “clear and present danger” only refers to security. For Jeganathan, it would seem from his choice of language, the threat to one’s rights is “a clear and present danger.”

The way I see terrorists, as being dangerous or not, has nothing to do with my reading Jeganathan’s text. I try not to allow my presumptions to get in the way of my comprehending the writer’s meaning. Perhaps, that is a trick you should try yourself. It will hone your reading skills, not to mention opening you up to new ideas.

As for the entirely silly reference to my reading it allegorically, he was not telling a story. You can’t do allegorical readings when a passage is analytical rather than narrative (as the Bible is).

As for the rest of your commentary, you do show that you are part of the “average dastardly ‘Sinhalese’ ” group that you refer to. So it is understandable that “some people” (certainly not you!) think that these Tamil civilians can be incarcerated because they have not enjoyed freedom for 30 years under the Tigers! Well said!

I know the cadre threat is a false one. I don’t dwell on that because, even if the threat was real, I still think it is morally objectionable to incarcerate some people in order to guarantee the security of others. This kind of argument is exactly what the LTTE would have used in using civilians to shield them–can’t be helped, it is a “necessary evil”. Yet, the whole world, and probably every citizen of SL found that morally disgusting. Is it a case of different strokes for different folks?

I didn’t throw a hissy fit because of what the LTTE did to Tamils? How do you know? My conscience is perfectly clear on that score.

Disgusted said,

October 31, 2009 @ 9:53 pm

Off the Cuff,
I am not interested in being drawn into your arguments, which I have already tackled many times in other threads. My only purpose here was to show that you were misrepresenting Pradeep Jeganathan’s comments, and I believe I have done that. I did not do that to get into an argument with you, as you claim, but to correct a misinterpretation of Jeganathan’s position, for which I have a great deal of respect.

You can think I am chagrined by your not complimenting me on my contribution to a thread, if you wish to. Maybe it will help you feel better about yourself. You sound sad and lonely. I can tell that from the desperate way in which you demand that people engage with you.

Heshan said,

October 31, 2009 @ 10:17 pm

@Off the Cuff:

You are a first-class idiot. I simply asked you to provide a link to the report in order that veracity could be authenticated. I don’t know about you, but I work in a technical field. Misquoting, and failing to provide references is a gross violation of integrity… then again, you are probably a three-wheeler driver posting your rubbish here during “peak hours.” So take your BS challenge and stick it where the “sun don’t shine.”

And stop trying to compare Japanese to Sinhalese. They are from two different language families and have no common roots. Finding two words that sound alike is a meaningless comparison. Do you know what a language family is? I suggest you to stick to your “Tamils posing as Sinhalese” on GV theories and other such nonsense.

Heshan said,

October 31, 2009 @ 10:22 pm

After going through this thread, and noting the half-baked arguments for continued incarceration of innocent Tamil civilians, I am convinced the international community should forcibly intervene. That is the only hope for Tamils. What a sad state of affairs.

Off the Cuff said,

November 1, 2009 @ 3:34 am

Dear Heshan,

Like your apparent pomposity your breeding is also very transparent.

You think you are omniscient. SL three wheeler driver’s are poor as they don’t earn in dollars but they are obviously better bred than you. An INGRATE who makes use of SL’s FREE Education paid for by the SL tax payers and who spreads unsubstantiated canards about the Mother Land.

I stated the source and if you knew how to use search engines properly you could have easily found the report.

I only see pompous statements in you posts without any bibliography. Nothing, just blah blah blah.

Like the Sinhalese proverb about the dog that defecated on a stone you are now struggling to cover what you left on the stone using vituperative abuse.

You freely throw insults at others, but when cornered you are just a plain coward. There are many on GV who apologises for their mistakes but not you. You think you are God (only God is omniscient) but I think its a misspelling

I know what Japanese is but you don’t. Only two verb combinations were given as an example obviously for brevity but the similarities can fill a book.

This is the type of thing you say

My comment “Education in the following countries are not based on the use of English. Germany, France, Russia, Japan, China and probably Korea ….”

Your comment
“Five of the countries you named, except for China, are industrialized. Ironically, despite such industrialization, the vast majority of people in all of these countries can speak English fairly well. You mentioned three European countries… most Europeans can speak 3 or 4 different languages fluently. Clearly, this is a contradiction of your “mother tongue is best” theory.”

Notice your sentence “…the vast majority of people in all of these countries can speak English fairly well…..”

You included the VAST MAJORITY of Japanese in the group who can speak English fairly well. This is TOTALLY BS and I know that first hand. So would anyone who have visited Japan.

Where is the Bibliography for that statement? Integrity seems to have flown out the window hasn’t it?

You are entitled to your opinion and i am entitled to mine. Since your posts are full of statements such as the above the GV readers will form their own.

Off the Cuff said,

November 1, 2009 @ 4:01 am

Dear Disgusted,

You have not proved anything.

You have stated your opinion. As pointed out before, your opinion does not count as proof by a long shot.

You only use phrases such as “I don’t think”,
“I am sure” in lieu of proof.
Those phrases are devoid of substance and you call them proof?

My post is about IDP’s and you have not dislodged my argument even by an iota.

BTW I don’t have to think that you are chagrined you have shown that yourself

SomewhatDisgusted said,

November 1, 2009 @ 7:23 am

Disgusted >>

Please have the last word and be done with it. This is utterly pointless. I do not intend to derail this discussion further by quibbling over your “reading” of an easily comprehensible passage. Readers can judge the content for themselves.

Heshan said,

November 1, 2009 @ 9:31 am

“You included the VAST MAJORITY of Japanese in the group who can speak English fairly well. This is TOTALLY BS and I know that first hand. So would anyone who have visited Japan.”

I have already admitted that the majority of Japanese cannot speak English well. However, I also stated (and backed up with sources) the fact that most Japanese understand English very well. I also pointed out that since 2005, all Japanese children are required to study English for 8 years. The same is true in Korea and China. In any case, I already pointed out that the success of these countries has nothing to do with the use of the mother tongue. Which shows that you are completely wrong. Do you want to deny it?

“Japanese post-war economic miracle is the name given to the historical phenomenon of Japan’s record period of economic growth following World War II, spurred mainly by United States investment but partly by Japanese government economic interventionism in particular through their Ministry of International Trade and Industry.[1] The distinguishing characteristics of the Japanese economy during the “economic miracle” years included: the cooperation of manufacturers, suppliers, distributors, and banks in closely knit groups called keiretsu; the powerful enterprise unions and shuntō; cozy relations with government bureaucrats, and the guarantee of lifetime employment (shūshin koyō) in big corporations and highly unionized blue-collar factories.”

Off the Cuff said,

November 1, 2009 @ 2:38 pm

Dear SomewhatDisgusted,

I apologize for taking you and the readership of GV away from the objective of our discussion about the IDP’s when a reply to Dr DN should have been taking priority. I am at fault for allowing myself to get distracted by the obvious bait from Troll attempts.

I have said what I had to say. I just wanted the GV readership to see that burning issues get clouded when hearsay and conjecture is allowed to go unchallenged.

This was the Modus Operendi (repeat BS ad nauseum and it will be believed as fact) and it was successful in the past as the BS went unchallenged on public platforms. People who were unaware of actual history, believed the BS as the Gospel truth and international public opinion became based on this oft repeated BS.

Once again my unreserved apologies to the readership of GV.

J

Heshan said,

November 1, 2009 @ 10:03 pm

Still no link to the non-existent UN report on language?

Wink Wink : )

Off the Cuff said,

November 2, 2009 @ 12:43 am

Dare to take
the challenge I made
The link will be there
As soon as you dare

We will have peace
as you wont be seen
Exiled for ever
From GV it seems

From now on as far as I am concerned this matter is closed

Bye Bye Heshan :-)

Heshan said,

November 2, 2009 @ 12:19 pm

Usually the link (source) is given immediately after the argument is made. I will assume you are not familiar with the methodology behind professional writing. Which would explain well your illogical ramblings on GV.. I see you have now taken to poetry? Anyway, the following might be beyond your capabilities:

“In academic communities, the ethics of research demand that writers be credited for their work and their writing. Not to do so is to plagiarize, to intentionally or unintentionally appropriate the ideas, language, or work of another without sufficient acknowledgement that such material is not one’s own. We offer the following sections as guides to help you understand how to cite the sources you have used in writing your papers, as well as to understand the nature of plagiarism and how to avoid it.”

http://library.duke.edu/research/citing/

Heshan said,

November 2, 2009 @ 12:22 pm

Let me add that putting “Source: UN” is not a correct way of citing, especially when one refuses to give the hyperlink upon being questioned.

Off the Cuff said,

November 2, 2009 @ 2:06 pm

Dear Heshan,

Few points

1. Your continued refusal to take the challenge is because you KNOW that the report exists. If you are confident that I am incapable of producing the link I dare you to take me up on the challenge

2. Please apply your advice to all your posts and see how many would meet your criteria

3. You underestimate the people who post here, even if they are three wheeler drivers they have the mental capacity to match even University Dons

4. Learn to be CIVIL, I dont appreciate vulgar displays of ill breeding and I am sure GV readers wont like it either so keep those comments to yourself.

5. Respect your country of birth, which has given you so much, what have you given her in return? What I have seen is unsubstantiated slander at every turn. Dont be an Ingrate you can criticize in decent language but dont slander her. Its not second to being an ingrate to your parents

6. If you think what I write is illogical, dislodge my arguments with facts, not innuendo, abuse and guess work. I welcome intellectual discourse and so would the GV readership.

Japan was always a developed nation even before WW2

So now turn your energies to the subject matter of this thread and breakdown my arguments by posting substance instead of guesswork, indefensible assumptions and innuendo.

Heshan said,

November 2, 2009 @ 7:04 pm

As usual you are barking without offering evidence. This is the only point worth arguing:

“Japan was always a developed nation even before WW2″

Japan did not become industrialized until after WWI. Industrialization was due to Western pressures to trade, as well as Japan adapting Western economic models. Again, a total contradiction of your absurd assertion that the “mother tongue” plays any role in the development of a nation.

Off the Cuff said,

November 2, 2009 @ 10:53 pm

Dear Heshan,

OK you have shown what you are made up of.

The report does not exist and you are soooo Braaaave.

Sure my assertions about the Mother Tongue are wrong. The US Universities which did research for over a decade on it are wrong, the UN experts are wrong, The Educational experts who published research are wrong but you are right as usual.

If you really want to discuss this seriously, open a thread on the subject on GV and I will take you on with pleasure. In the meantime I have a much delayed reply on the subject matter of this thread to post here.

Since you are not game enough to take my challenge and call my bluff, open a thread on GV on the subject then you can have the link without risking your existence on GV as I will be quoting extensively from it.

Two Sinhala sayings that describes you and your predicamnet comes to mind

“Empty vessels makes most noise”
“Like the dog who defecated on a stone”

Heshan said,

November 3, 2009 @ 2:34 am

Ending your argument by asking your opponent to defecate is a clear sign of desperation – the hallmark of a fool at his wits end. But thank you for the good laugh. : )

Heshan said,

November 3, 2009 @ 2:41 am

P.S:

Asking your opponent to abandon the premises after he wins an argument is not very civil. I know you are quite fond of the “white-van” culture existing in that particular parody of a “democracy”, and have written volumes and volumes in a desperate attempt to legitimize its evils… nevertheless, may I remind you that such a “white-van” culture and all of its numerous derivatives do not exist elsewhere, including in cyberspace (save for websites that spouts its venomous propaganda). In light of which, your challeng lacks any basis and is dismissed on the grounds of redundancy.

tis-a-small-world said,

November 3, 2009 @ 1:23 pm

Dr.Nesiah,
This is a very interesting and a timely article.

Yes! I do agree with you about the tribal, primitive Sri Lankan society. Even Sociologists of leading Universities agree about this. I remember when I was studying Sri Lankan society (a course unit offered at the sociology department of university of Sri Jayawardanapura), the lecture interpreted the Sri Lankan society as “A traditional society mixed with tribalism”. Not much is done on behalf of the universities to change this tribal perspective.

The Three-decade civil war has instilled racism, hatred, tribalism, ultra-nationalism in the society. But in my opinion, the worst a war can do is the disregard for humanity! This fact is well portrayed in the brutal murder of the mentally handicapped youth in the Bambalapitiya beach!

niranjan said,

November 5, 2009 @ 1:07 pm

tis-small world,

Yes, the war has aggravated divisions in society and we see inhumanity all around us every day. But tribalism was always there, but the war has made it far worse than what it was. I think education can do a lot to reduce tribalism in society. This has to start with the schools. It is perhaps too late to change peoples views by the time they go to university.

Devanesan Nesiah said,

November 8, 2009 @ 12:02 pm

In the course of several exchanges, Off-the-Cuff has expressed many prejudiced comments against Tamils that I showed to be unfounded. Off-the-Cuff now asserts that I am now trying to demonise the Sinhalese. Is there a single sentence from any of my postings to substantiate that charge?

There can be no basis to demonise any ethnic group. Genetic differences between one group and another may account for differences in physical features but not for differences in character. Even cultural characteristics develop in response to environmental factors. Change the environment and, in course of time, the culture will change. For example, violent crime was minimal in Jaffna till the third quarter of the twentieth century, Murders were so infrequent that if one did occur, it became the talk of the Peninsula for months and years. Changes began in the seventies and accelerated in the eighties, resulting on the profusion of militia and violence.

Mass emigration to Canda led to further changes in culture among the diaspora. The Sri Lankan Tamil diaspora in Canada is very different in culture both to their ancestors back home and to the fellow Tamils of the same generation they left behind. So too in the case of the Sinhala diaspora and many other diaspora around the globe.

Those interested in the subject may read R Cheran’s ‘The Sixth Genre: Memory, History and the Tamil Diasporic Imagination’ in the Marga Monograph Series that I co-edited. There is good international literature too, eg. the writings of Prof John Ogbu.

It is those who criticise racist policies and press for changes in those policies who can claim to be for ethnic harmony and nation-building. Apologists who defend racist policies are not helping.

Off the Cuff said,

November 12, 2009 @ 1:08 am

Dear Dr Devanesan Nessiah,

I could not reply your post of October 30, 2009 @ 10:27 am due to pressure of work. I will do so in detail as soon as possible.

Your latest post caught my eye and this is just a brief reply.

I have stated why I believe that you demonise the Sinhalese as a race in my first ever post on GV September 22, 2009 (http://www.groundviews.org/2009/09/17/the-internment-%e2%80%93-a-collective-punishment/comment-page-3/#comment-9232 )

You are too intelligent to do so directly but you do demonise the Sinhalese by what you leave unsaid.

Here is just ONE example

Your first para discusses IDP’s and that discussion is limited to TAMIL IDP’s. You pose the following question

“The widespread indifference to the continuing misery of 280,000 interned IDPs, most of them already unlawfully detained for about four months without any charges, is a sad reflection on the moral values of our society.”

You follow it up with a very telling question to draw attention to ethnicity….

“Is the ethnicity of the IDPs a factor that contributes to the tacit acceptance of the detention without any charges of virtually the entire population caught up in the territory conquered from the LTTE?”

Now you draw the reader’s attention to the Tsunami generosity of the SL populace and then you ask

“Do ethnic differences suppress our generosity when the disaster is caused by ethnicity-related political oppression or violence?”

Why did you omit the spontaneous support that the Southerners gave the IDP’s?

Why did you drag “Ethnic Differences” into the picture, when there was no such difference as evidenced by the spontaneous support from the South?

Who provided the majority of support from the South, Tamils to the exclusion of others?

Did you not see that even during the 1983 mob attacks on Tamils that many Sinhalese came forward risking not only their lives and property but also the lives of their own children and family to protect Tamils?

Did you give any thought as to how the several millions of Tamils living in the South were saved when mobs went on the rampage the day the bodies of 13 Sinhala soldiers killed by Prabahkaran were laid to rest? Was it due to police action or was it due to the many hundreds of thousands of brave civic minded Sinhalese and others who threw caution to the wind to save a fellow human being?

Was “Ethnicity” a deciding factor for them to do so? I am one of them who risked my family to save my neighbours family and hence the mud you attempt to throw has no personal affect on me. I did not for a moment think that they were Tamil but just that they were my friends needing my help as a fellow human being.

Regarding the IDP’s my view is still the same, the lives of a 20 million population takes precedence to the freedom of movement of 170 thousand. Care should be taken to filter out all possible remnants of the LTTE hiding behind the genuine civilians to prevent the terrorists getting out and using the multitude of arms, explosives and munitions still remaining hidden (even today the newspapers reported the unearthing of parts for 130mm and 152mm artillery guns, RPG’s and booby traps).

What I requested you to do is to use decorum in writing as a Tamil intellectual in order not to inflame feelings and hardening of positions of all involved

A great writer to emulate is Dr P. Jeganathan. He does not resort to melodrama.

Events are overtaking the IDP issue and the statement made in parliament by TNA shows the Govts genuine efforts at resettlement.

The LTTE within the Diaspora requires propaganda from every quarter to get the terrorists in hiding free, to restart mayhem. Writing unbalanced articles will only help them and not reconciliation.

Off the Cuff said,

November 12, 2009 @ 12:30 pm

Dear Dr Devanesan Nessiah,

This is a short follow up on my post on November 12, 2009 @ 1:08 am above.

My understanding of a “Racist” policy is a policy that targets a specific ethnic group or skin colour. Such a policy should target the “WHOLE” ethnic group or all people of a certain skin colour. Where do you see such a policy regarding the IDP’s?

However I may be wrong in my understanding of a racist policy and am awaiting a clear and erudite definition from you and how such a definition applies to the IDP situation in particular.

My contention is and has always been the security threat posed by the LTTE terrorists hiding amongst the genuine civilians to ALL Sri Lankans “IRRESPECTIVE OF RACE” living outside the camps and there are 20 million of them who will definitely be exposed to a life threatening risk as it happened in the past (please note that I do not make a race distinction here).

Today’s paper (12 Nov), gives details of the discovery of an underground storage containing 2000 KG of C4 explosives from Puthukudirippu. The largest ever discovery of explosives since the war ended. To put this into perspective compare the amount of C4 explosives used in past attacks on the SL population. An early release of terrorists would have put these explosives in terrorist hands. It does not leave room for second guessing what the result could have been.

You have been attempting to sweep aside the above risk as you don’t even mention it in your article and attempts to cloud it over “with a mine clearing reason that you claim to be patently false” and your subsequent replies. But security is the “ONLY” reason the govt has made in the UN for the continued internment of the IDP’s who of course are Tamil. The “REASON” for the internment is not racist as I pointed out to you in one of my comments. How can such a policy be “RACIST”?

I once again reiterate that Dr P. Jeganathan is great Tamil writer worthy of emulation. He does not resort to melodrama.

Vichara said,

November 26, 2009 @ 4:30 pm

I do not know whether this Blog is still open.
I am still waiting for a response from Dr Nesiah on my comments of his misinterpretation of the history of the ethnic problem as pointed out in my post of October 19, 2009.

Now that the IDP issue is being settled on the original time fame agreed with Ban Ki Moon, it is time that the key concern of ethnic reconciliation commences on a sound footing.

Reconciliation between any opposing parties has to be based on mutual trust. For this we have to separate facts from fiction.

Is DN prepared to do this?

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